Faith v. Works - the old discussion revisited

It’s not so much punishment, it’s the fruits of your labor. If you are a subsistence farmer and you work hard in your fields you will eat well in the winter, if you don’t you will starve to death.

Christian demonology is a interest of mine and as such this was more along the lines of posts of pet peeves like "it’s ‘a lot’ not alot - there is no such word as alot’ or ‘it’s copyright, as the right to make a copy, not copywright’

The other issues, well you stated your opinion that you think Christianity will soon accept the idea that everyone will be saved, I stated my opinion to the contrary.

To this point, then, you said, “I would really like this to be true, but don’t expect it to fly, scripture is just so hard against this.”

Depending upon Scripture to clarify and maintain the Faith is tenuous, at best. The history of Christianity has a volume of literature about what Scripture really teaches orders of magnitude beyond the volume of the original texts, and it has been a highly uncohesive venture, to put it charitably. The “devils/demons” perseveration is an example, but so is the use of Scripture to attack Homosexuality, preserve slavery, make military war against the ungodly, ridicule Galileo, and on and on.

Generally speaking, it is societal norms and not Scripture that lead thought among Christians. My folks were taught in their Christian university that interracial marriage was unscriptural…the Biblical text is unchanged in the last 50 years, but the same university has given up teaching that.

To the OP at hand, Christian theology about faith v works, and whether or not Christianity requires either for redemption of mankind, will depend not on Scripture but on the collective thinking of the broad masses raised in a Christian tradition. Their primary thought influence will be society and not Scripture. In the last 50 years alone there has been a seachange against aggressive evangelizing, for example. The next phase will be a broad acceptance that all religions which promote goodness are probably OK, and the final stage will be that that is what Scripture taught us all along.

This is really apples and oranges the way I see it, the devils/demons is a known mistranslation, using the term devils is simply not in the text.

The other issues you state are in the text (taken out of context or not they are there)

It is human nature to force God’s rule on our view on how we think things should be. We are at a point where knowledge has increased (as stated in Daniel 12:4). We don’t have to depend on the teachings of others, but can do it personally. There are many translations available and it is easy to get a good translation on a verse. If one wants they can get the text in the original Greek and translate it themselves. It is at the point that everyone has the option to find out what scripture really says for themselves, to find out what is scriptural and what is man made dogma.

Why do you say this, in other words from what source do you assume what the next phase will be? I asked this because this is exactly what scripture teaches, but it is the spirit of the Antichrist, it will happen and deceive many.

Will you admit that there is a possibility that you are doing just this with your biblical readings?

Yes

Indeed, but many, perhaps most, forms of Christianity claim that the person is altered by coming to faith - that their character is reformed - not by their action directly - but by the action of God.

Emperor Wu of China was a very benevolent Buddhist. He built many temples and monasteries, educated many monks, and performed countless philanthropic deeds in the name of Buddhism. He asked the great teacher Bodhidharma, “What merit is there in my good works?” Bodhidharma replied, “None whatsoever.” The Emperor then asked, “What is the Primal meaning of Holy Reality?” Bodhidharma answered, “Emptiness, not holiness.” The Emperor then queried, “Who, then, is this confronting me?” “I do not know,” was Bodhidharma’s reply. Since the Emperor did not understand, Bodhidharma left his kingdom.

Later, Bodhidharma invented Kung Fu.

**CP: ** “The next phase will be a broad acceptance that all religions which promote goodness are probably OK, and the final stage will be that that is what Scripture taught us all along.”

Perhaps you will be more successful in your eschatological musings than the thousands who have preceded you since the earliest Christian times… :wink: