# Faith **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996 "2013-05-22T07:30:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/1 "2013-05-22T07:30:54Z")
What is going on with this faith in god that people have? It just seems so easy to point out the fallacies in faith, and yet they seem to go completely ignored by those who have it. It did not take long for me to realize that Christianity was a big hoax. I think it occurred to me in 9th grade after an examination of Noah’s ark and how it could not ever be feasibly possible. After that, I analyzed every other story in the bible, along with all of the despicable acts committed within it, and it’s a no brainer. Even if you leave the bible out of it, and just believe in “god”, you have to see that there is absolutely no evidence for it at all. Furthermore, the concept is logically inconsistent. I could go into numerous examples, but I’m sure most Atheists here have already heard them. It just seems that people suspend their intelligence when this subject comes up. I have to think it has something to do with fear of death and the unknown. That still doesn’t explain their unwillingness to actually think about it. I’ve had these conversations with friends who are devout christians. I’ve cornered them to the point where they agree that all they have is faith. Yet, it does not seem to shake their belief in any way. I just don’t understand. If someone could explain this ridiculous concept to me, I would appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/2 "2013-05-22T07:33:53Z")
You can’t falsify faith. It’s something you have despite a lack of evidence to support it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/3 "2013-05-22T07:42:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You can’t falsify faith. You can falsify faith easily in many cases. It’s just that the faithful will ignore the falsification and go right on believing what they _want_ to believe regardless of the facts or the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/4 "2013-05-22T07:58:06Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I think it occurred to me in 9th grade So how is 10th grade? > [@panaccione](#): > > I just don’t understand. If someone could explain this ridiculous concept to me, I would appreciate it. Do you trust the veracity of your senses and believe in the existence of the world? If so you have faith. A ridiculous concept I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/5 "2013-05-22T08:00:23Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > So how is 10th grade? > > Do you trust the veracity of your senses and believe in the existence of the world? If so you have faith. A ridiculous concept I agree. Faith backed by evidence is different than deciding with no evidence to have faith in an invisible superhero that loves you. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/6 "2013-05-22T08:03:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Faith backed by evidence is different than deciding with no evidence to have faith in an invisible superhero that loves you. I’m sorry. I don’t believe you exist. I’ve decided to give up on this ridiculous faith thing. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/7 "2013-05-22T08:06:37Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I’m sorry. I don’t believe you exist. I’ve decided to give up on this ridiculous faith thing. I’m typing to you on the computer, at the least that’s some evidence that I exist. Faith in things you have evidence for is different than blind faith in stuff with no evidence. If you don’t care to accept that, it’s cool. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/8 "2013-05-22T08:28:36Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m typing to you on the computer, at the least that’s some evidence that I exist. That’s not evidence. That’s just hearsay. All I know is that I appear to see something one a computer screen, but for all I know you might be a space gorilla or a figment of my own imagination. > [@Lobohan](#): > > Faith in things you have evidence for is different than blind faith in stuff with no evidence. If you don’t care to accept that, it’s cool. All so-called evidence is suspect and untrustworthy on account that it requires faith in a number of core assumptions. Our senses for instance. From an everyday practical point of view it may be silly not to trust ones senses to at least some degree, but the OP posted an existential question, and it is a fundamental condition of human existence that we’re forced to take everything – including existence itself – on faith basis. If the OP is of the opinion that he has no faith or that he doesn’t understand faith or some such ridiculous thing, then he is deluding himself. But if he want to experience faith I suggest he hold his hand out in front of him and take a look. If he believes he sees a hand then he has faith. I hope that answers his question. Not that I care that much. I don’t think he exists. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/9 "2013-05-22T08:37:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You can falsify faith easily in many cases. It’s just that the faithful will ignore the falsification and go right on believing what they _want_ to believe regardless of the facts or the consequences. No, you can falsify the subject of the faith. If I believe in Santa Claus, you can prove that Santa Claus isn’t real. But my faith in Santa Claus exists independently of Santa Claus. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/10 "2013-05-22T08:39:20Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > That’s not evidence. That’s just hearsay. All I know is that I appear to see something one a computer screen, but for all I know you might be a space gorilla or a figment of my own imagination. > > All so-called evidence is suspect and untrustworthy on account that it requires faith in a number of core assumptions. Our senses for instance. From an everyday practical point of view it may be silly not to trust ones senses to at least some degree, but the OP posted an existential question, and it is a fundamental condition of human existence that we’re forced to take everything – including existence itself – on faith basis. If the OP is of the opinion that he has no faith or that he doesn’t understand faith or some such ridiculous thing, then he is deluding himself. But if he want to experience faith I suggest he hold his hand out in front of him and take a look. If he believes he sees a hand then he has faith. I hope that answers his question. Not that I care that much. I don’t think he exists. Of course everything takes some faith. Believe you’re a brain in a jar, or a butterfly having a dream, it’s cool. But if you accept that the universe exists, then you have to take it as the evidence supports. Faith in the universe existing and faith in an invisible God aren’t equal. The universe is either existent or a very reliable simulation. God is just some shit that people assert. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/11 "2013-05-22T08:55:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No, you can falsify the subject of the faith. If I believe in Santa Claus, you can prove that Santa Claus isn’t real. But my faith in Santa Claus exists independently of Santa Claus. That’s just another way of saying what I said. If Santa Claus is proven not to exist and the person ignores the evidence, they are doing just what I said: > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It’s just that the faithful will ignore the falsification and go right on believing what they _want_ to believe regardless of the facts or the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/12 "2013-05-22T09:12:40Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > That’s just another way of saying what I said. If Santa Claus is proven not to exist and the person ignores the evidence, they are doing just what I said: The word faith doesn’t mean what you think it does. faith: belief that is not based on proof [cite](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/faith?s=t) faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof [cite](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith) faith: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence [cite](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/faith) faith: unquestioning belief that does not require proof or evidence [cite](http://www.yourdictionary.com/faith) faith: A feeling, conviction, or belief that something is true or real, without having evidence. [cite](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/faith) ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/13 "2013-05-22T09:27:49Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > I’ve had these conversations with friends who are devout christians. I’ve cornered them to the point where they agree that all they have is faith. Yet, it does not seem to shake their belief in any way. I just don’t understand. If someone could explain this ridiculous concept to me, I would appreciate it. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You can falsify faith easily in many cases. It’s just that the faithful will ignore the falsification and go right on believing what they _want_ to believe regardless of the facts or the consequences. It’s like one of those Prattchet or Adams things in action; their mind just ignores what is in front of them. You discuss for hours until they are stuck. Next minute they pout and say something like “well it is what I _Beleive_” as if that is some magic word that sweeps away all arguments brought against it before. Or worse, they start the record all over again right from their first premise that started the discussion. Much like these drive-by posters don’t come back to their OP, they just start again on another board. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/14 "2013-05-22T10:05:35Z")
Well if you get your friends pouting you’re probably not doing the friends thing most optimal. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/15 "2013-05-22T11:00:22Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Well if you get your friends pouting you’re probably not doing the friends thing most optimal. But of course I am, shouldn’t a friend help another friend when they show destructive behaviour or believe things that are detrimental to their happyness? If they worry for hours after seeing a black cat should I not point out that it is silly to believe blck cats bring bad luck? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/16 "2013-05-22T11:45:44Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Much like these drive-by posters don’t come back to their OP, they just start again on another board. The dedicated ones will participate in a multipage discussion, then start over again on the _same_ board. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/17 "2013-05-22T11:54:37Z")
I can try to explain how it works for me. I was born into a devout Roman Catholic family, went to Catholic schools, and became an atheist by high school. I can’t remember if it was 9th grade or later. 🙂 I was a happy atheist for many years. In the aftermath of some personal trauma, I met a man who asked me if I would listen to his story. He told me about a period in his life when things were going wrong, and how becoming a serious Christian had changed everything for him. While I listened to this guy’s story, which really had little to do with what I was going through at the time, I became convinced that he was telling me the truth. This conviction just happened, not through logic or some amazing persuasive power the guy had, but through what I would call a spiritual experience. I was listening to a story that I would have previously dismissed as pathetic bullshit and was filled with the feeling that it was totally true. I began to pray and to find comfort in that. I also began to read the bible and to find revelation in it. The evidence that supports my faith is internal. I don’t expect it to convince a skeptic, although I know from personal experience that it can happen. I have evidence for my faith, but it’s not evidence that is of much use to anyone else. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/18 "2013-05-22T13:00:10Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Do you trust the veracity of your senses and believe in the existence of the world? If so you have faith. A ridiculous concept I agree. Yes, I do. That is different than what I’m saying. I’m talking about faith in an imaginary being of which there is no evidence or proof. You can test my senses. You cannot test god. ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/19 "2013-05-22T13:05:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > You can falsify faith easily in many cases. It’s just that the faithful will ignore the falsification and go right on believing what they _want_ to believe regardless of the facts or the consequences. Yes, I agree. But why? Why do they go on believing when it is so obviously made up? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2013, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996/20 "2013-05-22T13:07:51Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > I was listening to a story that I would have previously dismissed as pathetic bullshit and was filled with the feeling that it was totally true. That’s a good definition of faith: _A feeling that something is true_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/faith/658996.md?page=2)