Faith

[sisu]

@panaccione

My point is that if your a true believer, you don’t get to make your own decisions. You must follow the bibles teachings. Your bible commands you to do some pretty heinous acts, and Jesus even says he has not come to do away with them, and yet you refrain to follow through.

Bull, who are you to say how I or anyone must believe or act?

@Voyager

If it were all about doing good, I agree there would be no issue. But look at the religious people who are convinced that God both tells them to feed the hungry and exclude gays from the Boy Scouts. We’ve got secular ethical reasons why this is a bad thing, but god is not governed by them.

Again a narrow view of the world mainly from a US perspective, the whole Scout thing is a non issue in most Western countries.

@Czarcasm

No-it’s that the “baseless opinion” of the minority seems to upset you and others more than the “baseless opinion” of the majority. We still live in a world where public officials can openly denigrate atheists without serious consequence, but the very few atheist public officials that have outed themselves are expected to keep a civil tongue lest people get upset. It’s as if someone dared to bring a shiv to a shotgun fight, and everyone’s upset with the guy holding the shiv.

That says something about your political system and the lobbying powers of some rich right wing Christians.

C’mon down to Australia and FFS we have an atheist as a PM.

[Voyager]

@huck

Interesting, I rather thought you were referring to a line of thought (in which I am not well-versed) that the gentle Jesus generally portrayed in the gospels was the result of politics, i.e. the conquest and loss of Jerusalem in the latter half of the first century and the need of the Christian communities for whom they were written to forbear and forgive as they were without political power or even the central authority of the church of Jerusalem.

I was thinking a bit further out, but I agree this was a motive - though I’m not sure how good it was for recruiting as opposed to not getting crucified.

[Voyager]

@sisu

Again a narrow view of the world mainly from a US perspective, the whole Scout thing is a non issue in most Western countries.

It was just an example. My daughter lives in Germany where they appear to have lots of religious holidays, lots of mandatory church attendance in schools, and very little religion. I’m quite aware that much of the world is more rational than the US. I don’t know what your opinion of religion in the US is, but her German bfs mother was quite concerned that we were raving religious fanatics. She was quite relieved to discover we were atheists also.

[sisu]

@Voyager

It was just an example. My daughter lives in Germany where they appear to have lots of religious holidays, lots of mandatory church attendance in schools, and very little religion. I’m quite aware that much of the world is more rational than the US. I don’t know what your opinion of religion in the US is, but her German bfs mother was quite concerned that we were raving religious fanatics. She was quite relieved to discover we were atheists also.

Most Americans I know (I work in the IT field and know quite a few) are decent people who I would think are more rational than literalists. So from a personal view point I think yanks are cool.

When I hear stats like 46% of Americans believe in Creationism I do tend to assume that America as a country in irrational.

[Trinopus]

One mild bit of relief may be found in that, while a great many Americans are creationists…it doesn’t really mean much. Evolution doesn’t come up a lot in ordinary life.

In contrast, the guys who believe in faith-healing, or who refuse to let their kids have blood transfusions, or who oppose environmental protection because “God gave us mastery of the world” or who put a lot of effort into getting books pulled from libraries – those guys have a real and direct negative effect on our lives.

[Thudlow_Boink]

@sisu

When I hear stats like 46% of Americans believe in Creationism I do tend to assume that America as a country in irrational.

I believe in Creationism—in fact, I’m just about positive it exists.

[Der_Trihs]

@Trinopus

One mild bit of relief may be found in that, while a great many Americans are creationists…it doesn’t really mean much. Evolution doesn’t come up a lot in ordinary life.

Antibiotic resistance, pesticide resistance, cancer treatment, pretty much anything involving biology…it comes up quite a lot.

[Voyager]

@sisu

When I hear stats like 46% of Americans believe in Creationism I do tend to assume that America as a country in irrational.

And to a large extent you’d be right. I saw an ad for the Glenn Beck channel tonight. :eek:

[Trinopus]

@Der_Trihs

Antibiotic resistance, pesticide resistance, cancer treatment, pretty much anything involving biology…it comes up quite a lot.

Certainly, to an educated person, and to people in technical fields. But not in the course of everyday life. Most of us have no more knowledge of how antibiotics are created or how they work than we do of the insides of our computers. It isn’t relevant to the effective usage.

And, yes, creationism is dangerous, like Lysenkoism, in that it can delay scientific progress.

But I’m going to excuse the typical “mom and pop” creationists, because their belief doesn’t really matter a whole lot. It’s a little like believing in a Flat Earth: it’s stupid as shit, but it doesn’t really hurt the rest of us. Disbelieving in immunizations for children – that SERIOUSLY threatens all of us.