I read how it was written and published.
It was copied by an atheist that heard voices.
This can’t end well.
Told you so.
You were right…but did you really expect anything else?
Nope, we seem to be getting along fine. I don’t feel grilled.
The purpose of faith? I’m assuming you mean; what good is it to me? I don’t think about salvation much, so it’s not that. It’s more like this. I believe I was created. I believe that believing in and having a relationship with my creator is the way I was designed to be. So, yeah, it definitely helps with my day-to-day life, whether that’s through the amazing power of self-delusion or an actual relationship with a divine being.
None of those really carry the sense of “belief in something despite proof to the contrary” though.
I don’t share the belief that you’ve put forward in that last sentence.
Why not? Haven’t you heard of people who have gone through a disaster thank God for saving them, and saying it is all a part of God’s plan?
I have.
I can’t answer for any other believers, but I had the same experience a bit younger than the OP of deciding that there was no God and that belief in God was foolishness; I was rather preconditioned to it because my grandfather was a staunch atheist, but I’ve found that this is a pretty common development in the early teens.
In my early 20s I had an experience that convinced me I had been wrong and returned to the Roman Catholic church, then became an Episcopalian last year.
I don’t really have any more fear of death than other folks. I was convinced by evidence that is entirely personal to me, and have found that my religion has helped me become a little better person and be of more service to others.
I have no interest in proving the existence of God to anyone or in converting others to my beliefs–nor do most believers I know. Nor do I spend any time in bafflement over how someone could be a non-believer. I’m a bit curious as to why the OP (along with many other posters on this board) is troubled by others’ belief in God.
Because the bible is full of of contradictions and despicable stories obviously written by men of that time. To say that the creator of the universe inspired this book is laughable, at least to me. That’s probably my biggest qualm. That people cant see it for what it is, and instead attach god to it, just because the book and other people say so. Belief in a personal god is something I can understand. But not that one.
I am not a fundamentalist nor is the Old Testament of any great religious significance to me. I think there are some lovely passages and powerful stories in the Old Testament, along with lots of horrifying ones of course (and in some cases these overlap).
But I guess I still don’t understand why someone else’s beliefs, whether based on the Old Testament or not, should be so unsettling or bothersome. I don’t believe in Tarot cards or ley lines or chain letters, but whether others do is a matter to which I’m perfectly indifferent.
It’s the fact that there are billions of followers. It stifles curiosity, free thinking, and reason, especially in children. It is the reason so many people have a problem with gays. It is the reason people don’t believe in evolution. It is a source of terrorism and many other nutjobs. The list goes on and on. Most people do not take it so literally, which is a good thing. However, at the same time they come off much less sincere. True believers are those like the Westboro Baptist Church or suicide bombers who have the conviction to take what The Bible or Quran says literally. It is truly a bane on society and we would be much better off without it.
“I am absolutely convinced that religion is the main source of hatred in the world.” - Christopher Hitchens
“So when I say that I think religion poisons everything… I mean to say it infects us in our most basic integrity. We can’t be moral, we can’t be good to each other without big brother. We must also be forced to love someone we fear. The essence of sadomasochism… I say this is evil.” - Christopher Hitchens
“Good people will do good things, and bad people will do bad things. But, for good people to bad things, that takes religion.” - Bertrand Russel
“How difficult would it be to improve the bible? Anyone in this room could improve the supposedly innerrant text scientifically, historically, ethically, spirtiually in moments. If god loves us and wanted to guide us with a book of morality, it’s very strange that god would give us a guide that supports slavery, a book that demands that we murder people for imaginary crimes like witchcraft.” - Sam Harris
“There are pages and pages about how to sacrifice animals, and keep slaves, and who to kill and why. There is nothing about electricity, DNA, infectious disease, the principles of disease. There is nothing particularly useful and there’s a lot of iron age barbarism and superstition. I can go into any Barnes and Noble, blindfolded, and pull a book out that is going to have more relevance and wisdom, than The Bible or Quran.” - Sam Harris
I’m glad that things come out all right for you. I didn’t know until I was an adult that I don’t have three-demensional vision. Someone had to tell me that it was impossible with my eyes. I thought I saw what everyone else saw. Those who do see three-demensionally may, in time, conclude that there are nine demensions. Who knows? I like your use of “provisional acceptance.”
The same is probably true for color blind people. And we all know that there are colors that we cannot see and sounds that we cannot hear. About one in every five people detect a soapy taste in cilantro. Which of us is right? With some exceptions it’s not really a matter of being “right,” is it?
Meanwhile, I drive by ear. I don’t feel deprived because I’ve always had this vision thing and don’t know any better. What am I missing? Nevermind. It just can’t be explained in a way that I can understand.
It’s after midnight in Nashville and I think I will play some blues before bed.
I find your question broad, but I guess that goes with the territory (or is it comes with? :dubious:,–no matter). Faith is a huge issue and also highly inidividual, to say the least, and religions differ a great deal in their practice, thus a Christian would likely answer one way, a Muslim another, a Jew yet another, and Hindus in many ways.
Then there are those denominational issues within the larger faiths; and in America even among Protestants the styles and rituals vary greatly by region, class, education and a host of other reasons. I find that in my lifetime the way people describe their faiths has changed a great deal, as where I come from (New England) it was almost considered bad taste to discuss faith at all even with one’s co-workers, even to a degree friends and neighbors outside of a house of worhsip, other than identifying one’s faith. In the old days,–and I’m not all that old–it just wasn’t talked about much.
I think of the political rise of and subsequent presidency of Jimmy Carter was a major turning point in the willingness of many Americans to discuss their belief in God in public.
As to me, I’m a Deist, which is another way of saying I believe that God or some divine being exists, am vague as to who or what it is but I sense it’s there, above us, and that it’s outside our ability to wholly comprehend, thus I seldom get talkative about it other than saying “yes, I believe in God” without getting too much into specifics. This is a deeply personal matter with me, and emotions certainly play a role in why I believe. It’s not a question of logic for me.
I neither advocate nor defend. Intuition plays a role in my beliefs, as does, I have no doubt, wishful thinking and lots of other things; nor am I so humorless to deny that there’s a “teddy bear” or rabbit’s foot aspect to faith, though I do also believe that when one chooses to believe in God (or any divine being) as an adult, in the modern world, that one has to take all this into account and, if one has a mind to, go for it anyway… Faith, I mean.
Natural limitations and defects in our senses doesn’t mean they don’t correspond to the natural world.
If you see rolling grassy hills instead of a cliff that’s right in front of you, you’ll end up dead. But seeing it in less or more fidelity doesn’t mean that you throw up your hands and walk off the cliff anyway, since who knows?
Trusting in our senses, in the basic existence of the universe we perceive isn’t faith in the sense as believing in a bald assertion of invisible fathers.
You have reason to trust your eyes, even when slightly damaged. You use them every day and they don’t lead you off cliffs. Every second of every day they present a world that corresponds (more or less) to the one that’s out there.
Compare that with belief in a loving God, when the world acts in exactly the manner that it would if He didn’t exist. Faith in that is absurd, trust in your senses is much more reasonable.
Also, if the problem with your vision is brain related, you should totally try to see a 3d film: How a movie changed one man’s vision forever
Has anyone investigated claims like these scientifically?
They don’t match my own personal experience; but you know what anecdotal evidence is worth…
I’m not. I suspect the hatred came first, and it found expression through whatever means was handy, which in many cases is religion. (And, FWIW, I’ve learned that, in general, people are often “absolutely convinced” of things that are not so.)
I suspect CH would elaborate further (if he could) in that religion often gives justification to those so inclined.
…from an authority that cannot be reached, let alone questioned.
Good example - your senses don’t show you things in 3D. I bet you thought of stuff that could be explained by this after you discovered it - I assume you are not great at threading needles.
I’m tone deaf. I listen to my CDs on Beethoven Symphonies and hear him talk about the use of keys, and hear nothing. When my daughter took Suzuki violin the teacher played a bunch of notes for the kids to identify. The five-year olds had no problem - me I couldn’t get one.
I was thinking more of a person in the desert knowing that the oasis his eyes reveal to him is not a place to go and run to. If he tests the existence of the oasis, the test will fail. We do test the existence of other things our senses show us, and they mostly pass.