# Fake coins - how is this cost-effective? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 23, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736 "2004-09-23T19:34:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/1 "2004-09-23T19:34:43Z")
Recently, I’ve been getting more and more counterfeit £1 coins in my change. They’re fairly easy to spot, if you’re looking for them: often the dates are “wrong” (the design changes each year, with some designs reused, but often the fakes have an impossible minting date for that design), the metal feels wrong, and the pattern is somewhat blurred — especially the inscription around the edge of the coin, which sometimes looks like it’s been scratched in by hand. What I want to know is, why do people bother to make these things? Surely it can’t be worth their while? You have to make the moulds, get hold of the metal, and go to all the trouble of stamping the coins (the lettering round the edge must be pretty time-consuming, as I assume you’d have to do each coin individually). Even then, you’ve still got to spend them or exchange them somehow without arousing suspicion (I can just picture the forgers trying to buy expensive goods with sackfulls of dodgy pound coins…). It seems like a lot of trouble to go to to make a pound at a time. I suppose one advantage is that coins do not undergo the close scrutiny that notes do — I’ve certainly never had a problem, ahem, passing the buck, as it were… ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/2 "2004-09-23T19:42:35Z")
When I lived in England, I received a counterfeit pound coin as well (in change from a bank, no less!) WAG: the counterfeit coins are used in fruit machines and at casinos. It’s a lot easier to fool a machine with a slug than it is to fool a human teller with a dodgy 20-pound note. Since the fruit machine hoppers are emptied into big sacks at the end of the day, and not looked at with too much care, all the counterfeiters would have to do is make their coinage look barely passable visually: all you have to do is make sure the electrical properties of the coin are the same. According to my gambling books, even a bad fruit machine pays off 85p to the pound. If it takes 2 or 3p apiece to counterfeit a pound coin, and the counterfeiters lose 15p to the fruit machine, that’s still 82-83p profit per pound coin. Not bad money for just sitting around a chip shop. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/3 "2004-09-23T19:53:10Z")
That’s a nice theory, but in my own experience the fake coins don’t work in machines. I’ve tried, and they drop straight through. It seems that they are made to be visually passable, but do not match closely enough to fool a machine. I don’t have any at the moment, or I’d compare the weight. Strangely, though, the most common way I get hold of them is _out of_ the change machines at work. Our ID cards double as cash cards for vending machines etc, and you load them up with credit using £1 coins. Next to the card loaders are change machines that give you coins for notes. I often get a dodgy coin with my change out of these machines, but I can’t use them to put _into_ the adjacent machine. Almost makes me wonder if the counterfeiters run a change-machine operation 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/4 "2004-09-23T20:11:30Z")
Can anyone give a cite for pictures of a real coin and fake coin? Living in the USA, I’m curious in what you’re dealing with there. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/5 "2004-09-23T20:18:36Z")
WAG… I wonder if for some it’s not done for monetary reasons but more just for the thrill of doing something illegal and getting away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/6 "2004-09-23T20:23:58Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > That’s a nice theory, but in my own experience the fake coins don’t work in machines. I’ve tried, and they drop straight through. It seems that they are made to be visually passable, but do not match closely enough to fool a machine. I don’t have any at the moment, or I’d compare the weight. > > Strangely, though, the most common way I get hold of them is _out of_ the change machines at work. Hmmm…well, there goes the fruit machine theory then. Although getting counterfeits _out_ of change machines doesn’t require that the slugs be electrically similar to coins. I am constantly getting Canadian coins out of the self-checkouts at the supermarket here, but I cannot put Canadian coins in. Obviously the slugs are being bought by your place of work in bags of coins–the change machine just spits them back out mechanically. I’m curious as to what your counterfeits look like too. Mine looked just like a blurry pound coin–till the “brass” coating flaked off of it. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/7 "2004-09-23T20:27:26Z")
What is a fruit machine? Speak English for og’s sake! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/8 "2004-09-23T20:30:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > What is a fruit machine? Speak English for og’s sake! 🙂 I think he means a slot machine of the old “three fruits” design. Pull the arm and try to “ring the cherries” or at least get lemon-lemon-cherry which pays $1.05 on the dollar. ---
**Author:** ![Mac\_Guffin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mac\_Guffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mac_Guffin)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/9 "2004-09-23T20:42:42Z")
fruit machine=one-armed bandit=slot machine. I live in N. Dakota and could figure that out… I also spent two years in England courtesy of the USAF… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/10 "2004-09-23T21:00:42Z")
I can see how it might be cost effective. It presumably costs the British Mint only a couple of pence at most to stamp out a pound coin. A counterfeiter, in a backroom operation, probably can’t achieve such a low production cost. But can he do it for much less than a pound? Sure he can. ON the other hand, it seems like a risky and tedious route to wealth via ill-gotten gains. Passing all those fake pounds seems inherently risky; isn’t someone bound to trace them back to their source eventually? Of course, counterfeiting coins did use to be very worthwhile when coins had more purchasing power. Regarding our pitiful lineup of coins in the U.S., one often hears today that the “reeding” or “milling” on the edges of dimes and quarters is there to help blind people identify coins by feeling the edges. But that is not why they originally put it there: It was put there in the first place to prevent people from scraping gold or silver from coins’ edges, and then passing the underweight coins on to some sucker. All U.S. coins above the nickel had milled edges. ---
**Author:** ![seosamh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@seosamh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seosamh)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/11 "2004-09-23T21:10:00Z")
There was a documentary on the BBC a few years back, one of those secret filming jobs, about a gang in the north west (Manchester or Stockport?) knocking out counterfeit pound coins. But I’m buggered if I can remember exactly how they could make a criminal profit out of them, especially as they were selling them to the undercover reporter for less than a quid. ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/12 "2004-09-23T21:14:38Z")
Quit shoving the queer, you shofulman! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/13 "2004-09-23T21:40:59Z")
> [@Rodd Hill](#): > > Quit shoving the queer, you shofulman! Rarely have I felt more divided by our common language. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/14 "2004-09-23T21:43:58Z")
It’s crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide! ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/15 "2004-09-23T23:16:19Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Almost makes me wonder if the counterfeiters run a change-machine operation 😉 Actually since many change machine operators do so for their own vending machines/video games its a major PITA. The opposite it actually more plausible. going to places like [this](http://www.tokensdirect.com/pricing.html) to match a token size/shape. Then using them for higher value items. For $750 I could buy 10,000 tokens compatible with my old employers video games. Translating to a value of $2,500 in game play. It would also play havoc with their bookkeeping and token inventories. Imagine the nightmares with things like bus tokens or drink comps… ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/16 "2004-09-23T23:41:10Z")
> [@seosamh](#): > > I’m buggered if I can remember exactly how they could make a criminal profit out of them, especially as they were selling them to the undercover reporter for less than a quid. The fastest way to get caught in counterfitting is trying to distribute your own merchandise. So, good and wise counterfitters will sell their fake currency to someone else for less than face value (but above cost, obviously). They then buys something else, passing off the fake cash as real. Who wants to buy large amount of fake currency? Well, if you’re making large cash transactions in a foreign land… like buying quantities of cocaine, heroin, marijuana, and/or automatic weapons, you could give the sellers fake currency and count on the unfamiliarity with the authentic currency to allow you to escape with the loot. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/17 "2004-09-23T23:42:40Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > Although getting counterfeits _out_ of change machines doesn’t require that the slugs be electrically similar to coins. That’s what I mean. I know that the change machines are filled by people from sacks of coins. That’s why I suggested (half-jokingly) that the change-machine business could be a good cover for counterfeiters. Substitute 10% of the coins for fakes and there’s your profit margin. As for providing a picture, well of course Sod’s Law dictates that I don’t have any fakes on me. However someone is selling one on eBay here: [http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3407&item=3931094546&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW](http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3407&item=3931094546&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) (their photo has a real coin, on the left, for comparison) The ones I have seen don’t seem to be plated, and are a much better match in colour. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/18 "2004-09-24T00:02:47Z")
> [@Duke](#): > > When I lived in England, I received a counterfeit pound coin as well (in change from a bank, no less!) I had a few of them in the offering bag when I was church treasurer; they were made of lead or pewter or something and painted gold; I can’t imagine why anyone would go to the trouble, except maybe a student with some spare time in a metalwork or art class. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/19 "2004-09-24T00:18:40Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > However someone is selling one on eBay here: [http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3407&item=3931094546&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW](http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3407&item=3931094546&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW) (their photo has a real coin, on the left, for comparison) A bit of a hijack, but I’m kind of surprised that this is going down. In the States the FBI and the Secret Service would be beating down his door in hours. Is distributing counterfeit money not dealt with as harshly in the UK? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736/20 "2004-09-24T00:27:39Z")
I’m surprised too; counterfeit money is counterfeit money, regardless of the denomination (although I’m sure the police would take more seriously a suitcase crammed with fake £50 notes). When I received the counterfeit pound coins, I was advised to hand them in, which I did - the police gave me a receipt for them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-coins-how-is-this-cost-effective/265736.md?page=2)