# Fake diamond = better than real diamond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141 "2003-08-28T05:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b782af/32.png) [@The\_Wrong\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Wrong_Girl)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/21 "2003-08-28T12:29:32Z")
It would be great to see DeBeers taken down like this. I don’t even like diamonds that much, but I’d buy a 5 carat colored ring for 45 bucks. And this (from the article)? > [@](#): > > “If people really love each other, then they give each other the real stone,” Is BS. I thought the point made in the article about buying a cultivated orchid from a florist rather than one directly from Africa or wherever was pretty valid. ---
**Author:** ![feistyALgal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@feistyALgal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feistyALgal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/22 "2003-08-28T12:49:22Z")
Wrong Girl, I agree with you about the article being BS – about if you really love someone you buy a real diamond. _explitive -that!_ The diamonds ARE real, they just don’t come from DeBeers stock. I liked the orchid comparison too. Extremely relevent. I’ll bet DeBeers is hiring hitmen as we type… to knock out the competition – they know they’ll be TOAST once people read the science behind it. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/23 "2003-08-28T12:50:05Z")
According to the [guidlines for measuring diamond quality](http://www.debeers.com/selecting/4cs/index.html) that I found on De Beers website these diamonds are to say the least amazing. > [@](#): > > The four most popular factors used to measure diamond quality are cut, color, carat and clarity. De Beers introduced this set of criteria to consumers in 1939 in order to provide consumers with a reference for evaluating diamonds. > > Nature dictates the characteristics of color, clarity and carat, while cut is directly influenced by humans. Although the 4Cs provide scientific guidelines for evaluating diamond quality, they do not necessarily measure diamond beauty. > > [ul] > [li]Cut: Refers to the angles and proportions of a diamond. [/li][li]Color: Refers to the degree to which a diamond is colorless.[/li][li]Carat: Refers to the weight of a diamond[/li][li]Clarity: Refers to the presence of inclusions in a diamond.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![feistyALgal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@feistyALgal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feistyALgal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/24 "2003-08-28T12:51:30Z")
\alterego\ Thanks for making the paragraph a link. It was an incredible article. I’m impressed – and psyched to buy some of their jewelry. ---
**Author:** ![feistyALgal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@feistyALgal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feistyALgal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/25 "2003-08-28T12:54:23Z")
Here’s Gemesis’ website: \Gemesis\ ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/26 "2003-08-28T12:55:11Z")
tisk tisk this is not _html_ =) Your welcome though By the way, wanna’ marry me? _pulls out huge 10 carat pink diamond ring_ Suddenly, it just doesnt have the same meaning does it? Ah well, still amazing 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/27 "2003-08-28T13:53:35Z")
I have some unfortunate news ☹ I made an inquiry to Gemesis as to how much a diamond would cost me. > [@](#): > > Subject: Inquiry > > ``` > Hi, I'm just wondering if you would be willing to provide me contact info for one of your resellers? I just don't know how I would go about buying one of your diamonds. > > Brian > > ``` And they replied, with this disgustingly unfortunate news; > [@](#): > > Thank you for you inquiry regarding Gemesis Cultured DiamondsTM. To better respond to your inquiry, please review the following information and indicate your request by return e-mail by completing the bottom section. > > Pricing and Diamond Types > > Color: Fancy Yellow, Fancy Intense Yellow, Fancy Vivid Yellow > > If you are unsure of the color, please state “Yellow.” (We do not produce White.) > > **Pricing: MSRP is $3250 per carat for diamonds 1.0 carats and greater and $1750.00 per carat for diamonds under 1.0 carat** > > Carats: Our diamonds our available from 0.10 up to 1.75 carats in fancy shapes. Ideal cut round diamonds are available from 0.10 to 1.25 carats. > > Cut: Round Brilliant, Princess, Oval, Marquis, Pear, Asscher, Emerald, Cushion > > Clarity: SI, (Slightly Included), VS (very slightly included) I have since replied with; > [@](#): > > Where is the 5 dollar version I have read about? =) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/28 "2003-08-28T14:06:30Z")
I don’t get the attraction to real diamonds over fake ones, but here is how it was explained to me. Let’s say you had a document signed by George Washington or Babe Ruth or Elvis - wherever your interests lie. That would be a pretty cool thing, and you would probably be quite proud of it; you might even frame it and display it in a prominent place. Now, what if it wasn’t the real thing but rather a flawless forgery indistinguishable from the real thing excet by experts with microscopes? It wouldn’t have nearly the value to you, would it? Same thing with real vs. fake diamonds. (Of course this begs the question of why we value someone’s signature in the first place.) This analogy doesn’t quite work for these new breed of diamonds because they are, after all, real diamonds, not something that looks exactly like one. Myself, I would be delighted to see diamonds become so cheap that DeBeers has to sell their stockpiles for pennies on the dollar to be used in industrial saws. ---
**Author:** ![feistyALgal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@feistyALgal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feistyALgal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/29 "2003-08-28T14:07:46Z")
This just in!!! ## I sent an email to Gemesis – interested in their diamonds. Here’s what I got back: "Thank you for you inquiry regarding Gemesis Cultured DiamondsTM. To better respond to your inquiry, please review the following information and indicate your request by return e-mail by completing the bottom section. Pricing and Diamond Types Color: Fancy Yellow, Fancy Intense Yellow, Fancy Vivid Yellow If you are unsure of the color, please state Yellow. (We do not produce White.) Pricing: MSRP is $3250 per carat for diamonds 1.0 carats and greater and $1750.00 per carat for diamonds under 1.0 carat Carats: Our diamonds our available from 0.10 up to 1.75 carats in fancy shapes. Ideal cut round diamonds are available from 0.10 to 1.25 carats. Cut: Round Brilliant, Princess, Oval, Marquis, Pear, Asscher, Emerald, Cushion Clarity: SI, (Slightly Included), VS (very slightly included) Price and Availability Request Request information by hitting REPLY, filling in the information below and pasting it into the reply or printing the form and faxing it to us at: fax (941) 907-9879 This is not an Inter-Active form. Name: Contact Phone Number: Purchase time frame: Carats: Cut: Color: Clarity: Questions or Comments: Thank you again for your interest in Gemesis Cultured Diamonds. Sincerely, The Gemesis Corporation." ---------------------------------------- end --------------- Well, they certainly responded fast enough! (Auto-responder, I’ll bet). I’ve been to both Gemesis and Apollo Diamond (or whatever the 2nd diamond manufacture’s name is in that article)… and I have them both bookmarked. Truly fascinating stuff! ---
**Author:** ![Skeptico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@Skeptico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skeptico)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/30 "2003-08-28T14:13:51Z")
Synthetic diamonds shine under UV (blacklight). Real diamonds don’t, because of certain asymmetries in the structure due to the natural formation process (IIRC). So, in a sense, synthetic diamons are even more “perfect” than natural diamonds. (Humm my long-time gf is a chemist and knows this. I wonder if it’s safe for me to give her a synthetic.) ---
**Author:** ![feistyALgal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@feistyALgal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/feistyALgal)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/31 "2003-08-28T14:16:20Z")
That’s just it; it’s what you value, and what emotional ties you place on that object/person/place… Why should Babe Ruth’s signature be any more valuable than a research scientist who found something very worthy in his field? It’s all marketing. DeBeers has a great marketing campaign going – or they did. They paid out big dollars to the advertising execs to keep them up there. Now, fortunately for the consumer, people will be able to afford something that once was out of their realm. The Orchid-thing really put things into perspective. Who cares where the orchid originated. It’s still a real orchid, it’s still beautiful and if you can’t appreciate it for it’s beauty as an orchid, having it come from somewhere allegedly ‘special’ doesn’t make it any more of an orchid than. It just makes it more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/32 "2003-08-29T03:13:54Z")
So, to summarize: There are artificial diamonds being grown/produced. Some people think they cost $5/carat. They don’t. They cost WAY more than that. And they aren’t white. They’re yellow. So, the technology is there. It’s gonna get better. But, for right now, if you want a diamond that ain’t yellow, you should go to Hartville Co…oops, sorry. DeBeers does control the market, but they don’t have stocks of big diamonds. They may have half carat stuff and smaller sowed up. But that will and is changing as we speak. The free market is reselling and recycling diamonds every day. DeBeers can only loose power as times go on. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/33 "2003-08-29T03:38:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alterego \* > \*\*Huh? Skeptical? About what? > > If you read the entire article, the Russians didnt have the resources capable of finding the precise enviroment necessary to make this cost effective- so they sold a prospectively shady machine to a man who bought it on a gamble for 57 grand. > > Why havent they ‘flooded the market’ ? Again, you must not have read the article - they are still perfecting the method. You should read the patent also. > > To add - I find Wired magazine to be a very credible source. I dont think anyone has material to prove otherwise. \*\* The fact that it’s patented makes me even more skeptical. The thing is, if someone has a way of creating artificial diamonds cheaply, there would be no need for a patent and no need to give interviews to magazines. Indeed, you’d be better off just cranking them out, bringing them to 47th street, selling them, and keeping your process a secret. (Note that a patent requires you to reveal your process to the world. ) ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/34 "2003-08-29T03:57:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cainxinth \* > \*\*If your wife (assuming your a man and married) fakes an organism \*\* Ah, yes, the old “give birth to a Cabbage Patch Doll and pretend it’s a real kid” trick. I **hate** it when they do that! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/35 "2003-08-29T04:01:08Z")
The thing that angers me about diamond marketing is that De Beers create the impression that a diamond is an investment. It is not. You will be lucky to get a third of the price back from a jeweller. So couples thinking “if times get hard, we can sell the ring” are being sadly deceived. Buy something cheaper, if not prettier, and put the rest into a proper savings plan or property. As mentioned earlier, the whole “diamonds are forever” marketing campaign (=scam) was created this century, in part to prevent a resale market by sentimentalising the idea of the diamond being “eternal”, and to create the fallacy of diamonds as the traditional marriage stone. They’re not. Pearl rings were far more popular earlier this century, from some sources I read. The fact that the artificial diamonds are yellow means they are unlikely ever to be worth anything, even if they are very hard to make, and very perfect. Natural yellow diamonds are immensely common, and utterly valueless. Step in De Beers again, with a “champagne diamonds” or “golden diamonds” marketing scheme - convincing poor fools that yellowy carbon crystals are (a) fashionable (b) valuable. All in all I would recommend going for artifical rather than natural because you waste less money. Or, buy a second hand diamond (which IMO is more romantic anyway, as at least it has some history). Men: any woman who expects/demands a vast expensive rock as a token of your affection is worrying. There’s also [**moissanite**](http://www.moissanite.com) - which is far brighter than diamond, but does have a slightly greeny-grey tinge. ---
**Author:** ![Gadfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gadfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadfly)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/36 "2003-08-29T04:05:48Z")
They aren’t really “fake”. They’re just man-made diamonds. Diamonds are nice, anyway, but they don’t hold a candle to more colorful stones. I’ve always been fond of opals. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/37 "2003-08-29T04:39:56Z")
There are actually two companies mentioned in the article, [Apollo Diamond](http://www.apollodiamond.com/), which makes colorless stones, and [Gemesis](http://www.gemesis.com/), which makes the yellow ones. Also, **istara** , the article says that yellow diamonds are actually very rare - on the second page, it says “Given their scarcity, the price per carat was much higher for yellow diamonds - so much higher, in fact, that only the very wealthy could afford them.” Where do you get your info? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/38 "2003-08-29T05:16:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Buy something cheaper, if not prettier, and put the rest into a proper savings plan or property. Definately. If you are going to invest in something, invest in something whose value is secured by more that a bunch of shady cartel house of straws. > [@](#): > > If your wife (assuming your a man and married) fakes an organism I can’t believe no one commented on this hilarious typo. I’ve always suspected my wife was faking an organism. ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/39 "2003-08-29T05:45:41Z")
Well, I don’t like diamonds, and my wedding band doesn’t have a stone, but if I did like them, I’d want a man-made one. No blood, it’s cheap(er), it fluoresces, and the manufacturing process is really cool. Heck, I’d probably brag about it being manufactured. However, if I was going to buy jewelry, there are a lot of other stones I’d buy first. Something blue, or green, or red. I already have a neat opal that belonged to my grandmother. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2003, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/40 "2003-08-29T05:53:24Z")
**genie,** you are the coolest chick ever =) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141.md?page=3)