# Fake diamond = better than real diamond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141 "2003-08-28T05:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/81 "2003-09-11T12:44:41Z")
**lucwarm** , I can tell you with some authority that a Patent requires submission of _specific technical information_ allowing a skilled person to _actually achieve_ the desired operational outcome. Otherwise it would be judged “incapable of industrial application”. Free energy machines and wheat/gold transmogrifiers are _not_ patented. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/82 "2003-09-11T19:21:47Z")
> [@](#): > > lucwarm, I can tell you with some authority that a Patent requires submission of specific technical information allowing a skilled person to actually achieve the desired operational outcome. Otherwise it would be judged “incapable of industrial application”. > > Free energy machines and wheat/gold transmogrifiers are not patented. You might want to check out the sci.skeptic faq as it relates to free energy machines: [http://home.xnet.com/~blatura/skep\_8.html](http://home.xnet.com/~blatura/skep_8.html) > [@](#): > > 8.5: But its been patented! > > So what? Patent offices will not grant a patent on a “perpetual motion machine” (some just require a working model) but if you call it a “vacuum energy device” and claim that it gets its energy from some previously unknown source then you can probably get a patent. Patent offices are there to judge whether something has been invented before, not whether it will work. The ban on devices labelled “perpetual motion” is a special case because the patent officers dislike being cited as some sort of approval by con-men. You also might want to check out US Patent No. 1997000942824: (at least according to a web site devoted to unusual patents). > [@](#): > > A method to transmit and receive electromagnetic waves which comprises generating opposing magnetic fields having a plane of maximum force running perpendicular to a longitudinal axis of the magnetic field; generating a heat source along an axis parallel to the longitudinal axis of the magnetic field; generating an accelerator parallel to and in close proximity to the heat source, thereby creating an input and output port; and generating a communications signal into the input and output port, **thereby sending the signal at a speed faster than light.** (emphasis mine) ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/83 "2003-09-11T22:16:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lucwarm \* > \*\*You might want to check out the sci.skeptic faq as it relates to free energy machines: > > [http://home.xnet.com/~blatura/skep\_8.html](http://home.xnet.com/~blatura/skep_8.html) > > You also might want to check out US Patent No. 1997000942824: (at least according to a web site devoted to unusual patents). > > (emphasis mine) \*\* [Here](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?TERM1=1997000942824&Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=0&f=S&l=50) is the US Patent and Trademark Office search engine by patent number. That number generates no hits. ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/84 "2003-09-11T22:54:42Z")
hmmm, try this: [http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&S1=6025810.WKU.&OS=PN/6025810&RS=PN/6025810](http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&S1=6025810.WKU.&OS=PN/6025810&RS=PN/6025810) ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/85 "2003-09-11T22:59:04Z")
Oh, and here’s a nice quote from the text of the patent: > [@](#): > > All known radio transmissions use known models of time and space dimensions for sending the RF signal. > > The present invention has discovered the apparent existence of a new dimension capable of acting as a medium for RE signals. Initial benefits of penetrating this new dimension include sending RF signals faster than the speed of light, extending the effective distance of RF transmitters at the same power radiated, penetrating known RF shielding devices, and **accelerating plant growth** exposed to the by-product energy of the RF transmissions. (emphasis mine) > [@](#): > > The following describes, in simple terms, what the present invention actually does. The present invention takes a transmission of energy, and instead of sending it through normal time and space, it pokes a small hole into another dimension, thus, sending the energy through a place which allows transmission of energy to exceed the speed of light. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/86 "2003-09-11T23:28:05Z")
OK, so holding a patent doesn’t guarantee that your invention does what you say it does. But neither does it guarantee that you are a crackpot. It only gives you legal recourse if someone copies your particular invention. If I built this dumbass FTL wannabe device and tried to sell it, that guy could sue me. So what? ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/87 "2003-09-11T23:30:14Z")
Oh, and here’s a page I found by searching on “free energy” and “patent” > **[newebmasters - Web Analysis for Newebmasters](https://newebmasters.com)** > > Web Analysis for Newebmasters ---
**Author:** ![lucwarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@lucwarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lucwarm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2003, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/88 "2003-09-11T23:42:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sturmhauke \* > \*\*OK, so holding a patent doesn’t guarantee that your invention does what you say it does. But neither does it guarantee that you are a crackpot. It only gives you legal recourse if someone copies your particular invention. If I built this dumbass FTL wannabe device and tried to sell it, that guy could sue me. So what? \*\* **sentient** seemed to be trying to argue that the fact that this diamond generating process is patented suggests that it’s legitimate. Here’s what he said: > [@](#): > > lucwarm, I can tell you with some authority that a Patent requires submission of specific technical information allowing a skilled person to actually achieve the desired operational outcome. Otherwise it would be judged “incapable of industrial application”. > > Free energy machines and wheat/gold transmogrifiers are not patented. My point was that this argument is (apparently) wrong. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/89 "2003-09-12T14:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by qts \* > \*\*The egregious example of patents is Dewar and Thermos. Dewar invented it and refused to patent it, so Thermos did and got all the money. \*\* Yeah, but Dewar got a town named after him in Oklahoma. (A very **small** town, admittedly. And maybe Dewar got his name from the town and not the other way around. But still.) ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/90 "2003-09-20T19:46:02Z")
It’s not 5 dollars a stone, it’s 5 dollars a carat, & I think that’s production cost. If you’re paying under $10 for the whole ring, I imagine you’ve got a tiny chip of stone on very shoddy jewelry. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/91 "2003-09-21T00:41:49Z")
Just two nights ago my dad told me about watching a show that showed an immense warehouse in Russia with perhaps hundreds of thousands of diamonds. Apparently they weren’t sold just because it was more worth it to trickle them onto the world market instead of making the price dump. The whole thing is being managed with a lot of precision. As for whether it would matter, I’ve decided that really wanting expensive things like rings would be close to a deal breaker for me when thinking of getting engaged. ---
**Author:** ![alterego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6bbea6/32.png) [@alterego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alterego)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/92 "2003-09-21T18:03:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cardinal \* > \*\*Just two nights ago my dad told me about watching a show that showed an immense warehouse in Russia with perhaps hundreds of thousands of diamonds. Apparently they weren’t sold just because it was more worth it to trickle them onto the world market instead of making the price dump. > > The whole thing is being managed with a lot of precision. > > As for whether it would matter, I’ve decided that really wanting expensive things like rings would be close to a deal breaker for me when thinking of getting engaged. \*\* Ok I’m gonna’ need a cite for that one… ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/93 "2003-09-21T18:41:29Z")
I always have fun poking at the “A diamond is forever” line because a diamond is not forever. A diamond is an unstable form of pure carbon at normal temperatures and pressures, and as such, will eventually rearrange and turn into graphite, which is the stable form of pure carbon. My pointing out this distinction was not appreciated last time I was in a jewelry store. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/94 "2003-09-21T18:47:40Z")
I always have fun poking at the “A diamond is forever” line because a diamond is not forever. A diamond is an unstable form of pure carbon at normal temperatures and pressures, and as such, will eventually rearrange and turn into graphite, which is the stable form of pure carbon. My pointing out this distinction was not appreciated last time I was in a jewelry store. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141/95 "2003-09-22T15:09:18Z")
Looks like I’m not going to find a cite for that story about the Russians. I did find easily through Google, though, that the Russians used to market almost all their diamonds through De Beers, and we all know they were hoarding to prop up the price. The part I wasn’t told was that this story was aired about 7 years ago. I had thought it was recently. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-diamond-better-than-real-diamond/198141.md?page=4)