# Fake Marine in full uniform at his High School reunion is found out by classmate & arrested With pic **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2009, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292 "2009-11-12T06:52:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/61 "2009-11-13T04:32:40Z")
What **Rhythmdv** l said. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/62 "2009-11-13T05:26:41Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Relatives’ medals - depends which side you wear them on. In some countries it is acceptable to do this (I wouldn’t, though). If I saw WW2 medals on someone who is obviously much too young, I’d assume this was what he was doing. On anther board that I lurk on, with members from many countries, this issue came up once. It was interesting that there was a sharp divide on this point between the US members and the Commonwealth members. Most of the US members said you should never wear someone else’s medals, but many of the Commonwealth posters saw nothing wrong with it, especially around Remembrance Day or similar events, provided there was no attempt to pass the medals off as your own. Wearing them on the right chest was one acceptable way to make it clear that the medals weren’t your own, and that you were wearing them to honour a family member who had served. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/63 "2009-11-13T05:47:35Z")
> [@robby](#): > > [10 USC, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 45, Section 772](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/772.html) lists some exceptions, including those for movie and theatrical actors. Hmmm, interesting. I had a couple years of ROTC in high school, taught by retired officers, and we were in uniform every Friday. I wonder where that would fall in the exceptions to the code. \*While attending a course of military instruction conducted by the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps, a civilian may wear the uniform prescribed by that armed force if the wear of such uniform is specifically authorized under regulations prescribed by the Secretary of the military department concerned. \* That sounds about right for my experience in school, except that our ROTC course was offered by our school, not conducted by the armed forces itself AFAIK. Maybe it was this: \*Members of any other organization designated by the Secretary of a military department. \* ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/64 "2009-11-13T05:59:41Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > On anther board that I lurk on, with members from many countries, this issue came up once. It was interesting that there was a sharp divide on this point between the US members and the Commonwealth members. Most of the US members said you should never wear someone else’s medals, but many of the Commonwealth posters saw nothing wrong with it, especially around Remembrance Day or similar events, provided there was no attempt to pass the medals off as your own. Wearing them on the right chest was one acceptable way to make it clear that the medals weren’t your own, and that you were wearing them to honour a family member who had served. I think many see it as the family member “standing in” for (as well as honouring) the deceased veteran. Great-Grandad may have served in WWII, but has subsequently passed away (and so can no longer participate in marches/ceremonies); so a family member “stands in”, wearing the medals on the opposite side of their chest. Thus, they are still honouring the veteran, as well as appearing on their behalf. It’s very moving to see people wearing their parents/grandparents/great-grandparents/etc medals at ANZAC marches, IMHO- a very poignant reminder that their service and valour hasn’t been forgotten and is still honoured and appreciated. That’s an entirely different kettle of fish to wearing grandad’s medals to a high school reunion or something, though. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/65 "2009-11-13T06:25:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Oh, bullshit. > > You accuse me of conflating laws, and then go ahead an conflate complete different situation. We’re not talking about a guy trying to get access to classified materials here; we’re talking about a moron at a school reunion. I have no trouble with laws forbidding the impersonating of a military officer in cases where the impersonation has any security or true authority implications. But some idiot walking around the mall or going to a party in uniform does not make for a security crisis. So in your ideal world, we can prohibit people from impersonating a military officer only if they are in the act of committing a crime? Should we also only prohibit people from impersonating a police officer if they are actually caught in the act of illegally arresting people? > [@mhendo](#): > > Also, are you telling me that someone turning up to an embassy or a marine corps base or the White House in a uniform would gain access on the strength of the uniform alone? No papers, no orders, no identification, no cross-checking of a list that permits access to certain persons, and not to others? > > If that’s the case, then i submit that this country has bigger fucking security problems than some douchebag wearing a uniform to a school reunion. If all it takes to breach our national security is some pressed green pants and a short haircut, then we’re in big trouble. So let me get this straight. You have no problem with someone dressing up as a Marine officer. Why do you have a problem with them also forging an ID card and a base pass? You know, just to make the whole effect complete. :rolleyes: In any event, why do we have to allow anybody to get this far? Gaining access to a base could start with befriending an actual servicemember at a high school reunion, after all. Ideally, yes, it would take much more than just a uniform to do some damage. But why take the chance in the first place? > [@mhendo](#): > > No such things as “stolen valor,” except in the minds of Orwellian doublespeakers, and your currency analogy is completely ridiculous. I respectfully disagree. I actually thought it was a pretty good analogy. Why do you think that nations prosecute counterfeiters so harshly? They’re just scraps of paper, after all. In any event, I’ll try a different analogy. Military awards, like college diplomas, are meaningless scraps of paper and/or cloth in and of themselves. Their importance lies in their authenticity and the fact that they are not just handed out. Indeed, a college degree from some diploma mill is in fact worthless because it is just handed out, while a degree from a respected institution such as Harvard is valuable simply because it is well known how difficult it is to be awarded such a diploma. Should Harvard relax its admissions criteria, or decide to start handing degrees out left and right, the value of its degrees would drop. If it were not illegal to forge a Harvard diploma, and this practice became commonplace, the same would happen. The same is true for military decorations and awards. I don’t think you people have any conception of what the criteria is for a Navy Cross. It is awarded for valor in combat and is second in precedence only to the Medal of Honor. Like the Medal of Honor, it is frequently awarded posthumously. When imposters wear unearned awards like these and others, it debases the award. If impostors could do this with impunity, the number of impostors would quickly outnumber the actual awardees. At that point, the award becomes worthless. > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Wow, that’s a fucked up law. > > “Let’s honor those who fought and died protecting the Constitution by wiping our asses with it!” > > “But hey, at least we got to send some douche-bag to jail for deprecating our soldiers. They’re tough as nails on the battlefield, but are such extreme emotional pussies that they need our help!” > > Yeah, douche-bag douche-bag douche-bag, gotcha. But _criminal_ douche-baggery? > > Anyone know if this piece of shit law has passed an Appeals court? I’d love to read the opinion. > [@Oregon\_sunshine](#): > > What **Rhythmdv** l said. You have got to be kidding me. I wonder: are any of you guys veterans? In any event, where in your copy of the Constitution does it protect the right to defraud people? Where does it give the right to impersonate a commissioned officer? This has absolutely nothing to do with hurting anybody’s feelings. I’d add more, but we’re not in the Pit, and it wouldn’t add much to the discussion, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/66 "2009-11-13T06:35:00Z")
What I would really like to see is a law the makes all the people who claim they are ex-Seals to go though the training program. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/67 "2009-11-13T06:46:16Z")
> [@robby](#): > > In any event, where in your copy of the Constitution does it protect the right to defraud people? Where does it give the right to impersonate a commissioned officer? I have one of those shiny Constitutions with the First Amendment intact. If you’d like to sidetrack into fraud and other strawmen, have at it – I don’t think anyone has had a difficult time distinguishing between douching it up at a highschool reunion and sneaking onto military bases. But if you want to continue to defame the Constitution by criminalizing speech, understand that that’s more repugnant than flag burning, and far more insulting to the honor of those who served to protect the Constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/68 "2009-11-13T06:48:10Z")
I don’t see where so many people are having a problem with making impersonating a member of the armed forces a crime. Should fraud be considered a form of protected speech? I wouldn’t make it a felony and send anyone to prison for it but I have no problems with it being a misdemeanor-level crime. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/69 "2009-11-13T07:04:07Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I have one of those shiny Constitutions with the First Amendment intact. If you’d like to sidetrack into fraud and other strawmen, have at it – I don’t think anyone has had a difficult time distinguishing between douching it up at a highschool reunion and sneaking onto military bases. > > But if you want to continue to defame the Constitution by criminalizing speech, understand that that’s more repugnant than flag burning, and far more insulting to the honor of those who served to protect the Constitution. What does flag burning have to do with the current discussion? That sounds like a textbook example of an [irrelevant topic presented in order to divert attention from the original issue](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man). Who exactly is bringing in straw man arguments, here? Nobody is talking about free speech here. We are talking about fraud and deceit, and impersonation of a commissioned officer, for crying out loud. The whole “sneaking onto a military base” discussion was only brought up as a possible consequence of permitting people to impersonate members of the Armed Forces with impunity, just like allowing people to impersonate police officers would make it easier for fake police to pull people over on the highway. How do you square your impassioned defense of the supposed constitutionality of military officer impersonators with those of police officer impersonators? Is this criminal prohibition also unconstitutional, in your opinion? Does it matter if the police impersonator is just driving around town or attending a school reunion? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/70 "2009-11-13T07:04:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t see where so many people are having a problem with making impersonating a member of the armed forces a crime. Should fraud be considered a form of protected speech? I wouldn’t make it a felony and send anyone to prison for it but I have no problems with it being a misdemeanor-level crime. Fraud involves trying to obtain money or material goods by deception, generally. So, dressing up as a soldier (in an actual, recognisable uniform with proper rank and battalion badges etc) at a party simply to appear like you’re awesome and not a loser is entirely different to pretending to be a Gulf War Veteran to get free medical treatment, discounts at businesses, and other things to which they are not entitled. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/71 "2009-11-13T07:05:24Z")
> [@robby](#): > > So in your ideal world, we can prohibit people from impersonating a military officer only if they are in the act of committing a crime? Should we also only prohibit people from impersonating a police officer if they are actually caught in the act of illegally arresting people? Not quite. I’m arguing that impersonating a military officer should only be a crime in cases where the intention behind the impersonation is to commit some other specific crime that requires the military uniform in order to work. The simple wearing of the uniform, absent any reasonable suspicion of other criminal intent, should not be a crime. The difference, in the cases above, is that police officers, by simple virtue of their jobs, are actually _doing_ their job even when they aren’t actually arresting anyone. The potential for abuse comes precisely because a police officer is invested with their authority in the broad view of the public, on a day-to-day basis. If you see someone walking down the street in a cop’s uniform, you assume that he or she has the authority of the badge at that moment, and if he or she stops you then you will respect that authority (to the extent required by the law). A soldier walking down the street in a town, or attending a school reunion, while in uniform, might be displaying his rank and his occupation, but he is not invested, in day-to-day civilian situations, with the same type of authority (vis-a-vis the general public) as a police officer. Can a Marine pull me over for speeding on the freeway? Does an Army Sargeant take my witness statement at the scene of an accident? Someone dressed as a fake cop can do damage anywhere; someone dressed as a fake solider can only have the sort of “national security implications” (your words) that you raise in specific instances, and in those instances it is virtually impossible that the simple presence of a uniform will be enough. Other identification will be required. > [@robby](#): > > So let me get this straight. You have no problem with someone dressing up as a Marine officer. Why do you have a problem with them also forging an ID card and a base pass? You know, just to make the whole effect complete. :rolleyes: Are you really as ignorant as that question suggests? Do you really not grasp the difference, in both substance and intent, between the situations we’re talking about here? > [@robby](#): > > In any event, why do we have to allow anybody to get this far? Gaining access to a base could start with befriending an actual servicemember at a high school reunion, after all. Ideally, yes, it would take much more than just a uniform to do some damage. But why take the chance in the first place? You’re making my argument for me. If gaining access to a base is as easy as getting some gullible servicemember to let you in, then focusing on people wearing fake uniforms should be well down our list of priorities. I was under the impression that (a) base security was generally better than that, and (b) a service member would have enough integirty not to bring soeone onto a base without confirming that person’s right to be there in the first place. Maybe, in my rush to defend our fake military, i have been overestimating our real military. > [@robby](#): > > In any event, I’ll try a different analogy. Military awards, like college diplomas, are meaningless scraps of paper and/or cloth in and of themselves. Their importance lies in their authenticity and the fact that they are not just handed out. Indeed, a college degree from some diploma mill is in fact worthless because it is just handed out, while a degree from a respected institution such as Harvard is valuable simply because it is well known how difficult it is to be awarded such a diploma. Should Harvard relax its admissions criteria, or decide to start handing degrees out left and right, the value of its degrees would drop. If it were not illegal to forge a Harvard diploma, and this practice became commonplace, the same would happen. > > The same is true for military decorations and awards. I don’t think you people have any conception of what the criteria is for a Navy Cross. It is awarded for valor in combat and is second in precedence only to the Medal of Honor. Like the Medal of Honor, it is frequently awarded posthumously. When imposters wear unearned awards like these and others, it debases the award. If impostors could do this with impunity, the number of impostors would quickly outnumber the actual awardees. At that point, the award becomes worthless. Still a bad analogy. While i was not aware of the specific requirements of the Navy Cross, i am aware that there are quite a few medals that require incredible amounts of courage, in life-threatening situations. I have much respect for the courage required to perform that actions that result in such medals being awarded, and am damned certain that i wouldn’t be able to do it. But some douchebag wearing one at a party doesn’t change my attitude. It’s not like there are fifty people on every street corner wearing unearned medals, leading us poor dumb civilians to spin around in confusion wondering who the real heroes are. My respect for real medal-holders is not some finite cup that is depleted when i see some guy wearing one, thus leaving less respect for the nxt guy to come along. It doesn’t work like that. And even if it did, all it would be depleting is my respect. That’s an intangible thing. It’s not like a guy wearing unearned medals is taking money or benefits or jobs or anything measurable away from those who earned them properly. If a guy does get a job or some other tangible benefit from wearing them, i’d be willing to countenance a charge of fraud against him, just like i’d be willing to countenance a charge of fraud against someone who obtained a job with a fake degree. But there’s no law against telling some gullible schmuck you meet at a party that you have a degree from Harvard, and there should be no law against telling some gullible schmuck that you won all these medals. > [@robby](#): > > You have got to be kidding me. I wonder: are any of you guys veterans? I was wondering how long this would take. It demonstrates the bankruptcy of your actual arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/72 "2009-11-13T07:16:04Z")
Impersonating a police office could have serious consequences for random strangers in an emergency situation. So I get why that is a crime. An actor can even be arrested in NY for merely carrying a police uniform, apparently. [http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/actors\_playing.html](http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/actors_playing.html) Impersonating a marine at a party, while in bad taste and a true douchebag move, doesn’t really create a dangerous situation. The only victim is yourself. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/73 "2009-11-13T07:46:24Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Not quite. I’m arguing that impersonating a military officer should only be a crime in cases where the intention behind the impersonation is to commit some other specific crime that requires the military uniform in order to work. The simple wearing of the uniform, absent any reasonable suspicion of other criminal intent, should not be a crime. > > The difference, in the cases above, is that police officers, by simple virtue of their jobs, are actually _doing_ their job even when they aren’t actually arresting anyone. The potential for abuse comes precisely because a police officer is invested with their authority in the broad view of the public, on a day-to-day basis. If you see someone walking down the street in a cop’s uniform, you assume that he or she has the authority of the badge at that moment, and if he or she stops you then you will respect that authority (to the extent required by the law). > > A soldier walking down the street in a town, or attending a school reunion, while in uniform, might be displaying his rank and his occupation, but he is not invested, in day-to-day civilian situations, with the same type of authority (vis-a-vis the general public) as a police officer. Can a Marine pull me over for speeding on the freeway? Does an Army Sargeant take my witness statement at the scene of an accident? > > Someone dressed as a fake cop can do damage anywhere; someone dressed as a fake solider can only have the sort of “national security implications” (your words) that you raise in specific instances, and in those instances it is virtually impossible that the simple presence of a uniform will be enough. Let me just say that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. A member of the military, even more so than a police officer, is on duty all of the time. Particularly when in uniform, they are “invested with their authority in the broad view of the public, on a day-to-day basis” (as you put it) just like a police officer. In certain situations, the military has far greater authority than any local police officer, as they represent the power of the federal government. You only think that the military has so little power within our nation’s borders because it is so rarely employed and (to be fair) because there are strict checks on this employment within our national borders. (I will note that there are much less strict checks on the use of National Guard troops, and they wear essentially the same uniforms as the active duty troops.) > [@mhendo](#): > > Are you really as ignorant as that question suggests? Do you really not grasp the difference, in both substance and intent, between the situations we’re talking about here? Now, now. Stick to the debate, rather than sink to insults. We not in the Pit, yet. Anyway, it’s not a complete off-the-wall suggestion, as you seem to suggest. Just like any halfway decent police impersonator has a fake badge, I wouldn’t be surprised if one of these military impersonators had a fake military ID. > [@mhendo](#): > > While i was not aware of the specific requirements of the Navy Cross, i am aware that there are quite a few medals that require incredible amounts of courage, in life-threatening situations. I have much respect for the courage required to perform that actions that result in such medals being awarded… Yeah, right. :rolleyes: > [@mhendo](#): > > I was wondering how long this would take. It demonstrates the bankruptcy of your actual arguments. I’ll take that as a “no,” then. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/74 "2009-11-13T07:50:23Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Now, now. Stick to the debate, rather than sink to insults. We not in the Pit, yet. > > \ > > Yeah, right. :rolleyes: > > I’ll take that as a “no,” then. Pot, kettle, and all that. You’re not intelligent enough to argue with. I’m done with you. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/75 "2009-11-13T08:02:58Z")
> [@robby](#): > > What does flag burning have to do with the current discussion? That sounds like a textbook example of an [irrelevant topic presented in order to divert attention from the original issue](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man). Who exactly is bringing in straw man arguments, here? You really don’t know what the term means, do you? And yet you provided a link. If I called someone dumb as a box of rocks, is that bringing up geological straw man arguments? > [@](#): > > Nobody is talking about free speech here. We are talking about fraud and deceit, and impersonation of a commissioned officer, for crying out loud. Um … you really don’t know what the term means, do you? Lots of people _are_ talking about free speech. While speech can get you into all sorts of trouble (e.g., threatening, yelling fire in a theater, etc.), and yes, there is such a concept as fraud, criminalizing general lying – especially self aggrandizing lying – is antithetical to the First Amendment. Civil society was not imperiled by his actions. Your tighty-whities are just as safe as they were before he was apprehended. Canada’s invasion plans do not depend on a critical mass of douche-bag military impersonators. Bottom line, it’s criminalizing speech for the sole reason that someone finds it offensive. That’s pretty unAmerican. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/76 "2009-11-13T08:06:28Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > You’re not intelligent enough to argue with. I’m done with you. So again your argument degenerates to insults. You can call me a lot of things, but “not intelligent enough to argue with” is laughable. And no, I don’t claim to be a champion debater, but I’m certainly not unintelligent. In any event, I must say that I am amazed at the stance you and others have taken on this issue. Nevertheless, when all is said and done, it’s still a federal offense. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/77 "2009-11-13T08:30:48Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Nevertheless, when all is said and done, it’s still a federal offense. Any chance the law’s made it through the court system? I can’t find a single case reference, but maybe you (or someone) will have better luck. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/78 "2009-11-13T08:45:05Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > …If I called someone dumb as a box of rocks, is that bringing up geological straw man arguments? Are you guys completely incapable of carrying on a discussion with another poster without insulting them? > [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Um … you really don’t know what the term means, do you? Lots of people _are_ talking about free speech. While speech can get you into all sorts of trouble (e.g., threatening, yelling fire in a theater, etc.), and yes, there is such a concept as fraud, criminalizing general lying – especially self aggrandizing lying – is antithetical to the First Amendment. > > Civil society was not imperiled by his actions. Your tighty-whities are just as safe as they were before he was apprehended. Canada’s invasion plans do not depend on a critical mass of douche-bag military impersonators. Bottom line, it’s criminalizing speech for the sole reason that someone finds it offensive. That’s pretty unAmerican. I know what free speech is. Lying douchebags can say they are or were highly-decorated Marines in social situations all they want. The criminal element arises when they actually don the uniform of a servicemember and impersonate a member of the Armed Forces. Again, this is not a case of free speech. It is a case of fraudulent deception, which is not protected by the First Amendment. You still have not answered if you believe that the criminalization of impersonating a police officer is constitutionally prohibited. If not, how is this different than the criminalization of impersonating a military officer, from a constitutional point of view? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/79 "2009-11-13T09:37:43Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Are you guys completely incapable of carrying on a discussion with another poster without insulting them? When i said that i had respect for the courage of military officers who won medals, you essentially called me a liar. And now you whine about insults. You’re a hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292/80 "2009-11-13T09:43:49Z")
> [@robby](#): > > You only think that the military has so little power within our nation’s borders because it is so rarely employed and (to be fair) because there are strict checks on this employment within our national borders. Yes, and…? I think you forgot your rebuttal, here. Why _aren’t_ the strict checks on his employment within the US enough to convince you that his abusable power is more limited than a police officer’s? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-marine-in-full-uniform-at-his-high-school-reunion-is-found-out-by-classmate-arrested-with-pic/517292.md?page=5)