# Fake moon landing - I'd like to hear the pro-Moon side
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [December 5, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059 "2003-12-05T00:58:44Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/1 "2003-12-05T00:58:44Z")
I watched the FOX documentary recently about how some people claim that the moon landing was fake. Now I recognized that most of their points were BS and i remain skeptical, but i was particularly struck by one of their arguments and i wish for someone to give me the other side. I am talking about the little crosses in the photos which appear to be covered by the foreground image in some cases. Now i would suppose that someone actually doctoring the photos wouldn’t make such a stupid mistake, but i wonder what could be the reason for this anomally.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/2 "2003-12-05T01:05:20Z")
[Here you go](http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/iangoddard/moon01.htm) from our very own Bad Astronomer’s site.
The page every one of the Fox documentary nonsensical photographic claims.
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/3 "2003-12-05T01:06:35Z")
Without seeing such an image, it’s hard to say, but I’d guess it’s probably a phenomenon called diffraction. Hold a flashlight at arm’s length, pointed at your face and turn it on. Hold a pen or pencil up to it and notice how the brighter parts of the light seem to “spill over” into the body of the pen. The is diffraction, an edge effect that bends light around an object’s edge. It’s what makes a pinhole camera work.
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/4 "2003-12-05T01:09:47Z")
Yep, that’s it. **The Bad Astronomer** ’s site doesn’t mention the effect by name, but it’s definitely diffraction.
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### Author:  [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/5 "2003-12-05T01:30:21Z")
You might also look here. “[Clavius Moon Base](http://www.clavius.org/) is an organization of amateurs and professionals devoted to the Apollo program and its manned exploration of the moon. Our special mission is to debunk the so-called conspiracy theories that state such a landing may never have occurred.”
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### Author:  [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/6 "2003-12-05T03:44:00Z")
thanks
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### Author:  [@netscape\_6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/netscape_6)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/7 "2003-12-05T03:52:11Z")
isn’t the flag and the land remains visible with a really, really, really, good telescope? i think if the flag and lander can be seen on a telescope then i would think that is acceptable proof.
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### Author:  [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/8 "2003-12-05T04:23:42Z")
No, they’re not visible. If they were visible, then…they’d be visible. Someone would have seen them and the information would be out there, “Hey, look, you can _see_ the Apollo stuff from Earth”, and that would blow the “moon landing hoax believers” right out of the water. They’d have no case.
Previous thread.
[See the Apollo landing sites on the moon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=122880)
How Stuff Works. [Is it possible to see (with a telescope) the stuff left behind on the moon by the Apollo astronauts to prove whether the missions were real?](http://www.howstuffworks.com/question188.htm)
[NASA says the Hubble can’t see stuff on the Moon, either.](http://hubble.gsfc.nasa.gov/faq.html)
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### Author:  [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/9 "2003-12-05T04:24:44Z")
No, [it’s not](http://www.tass-survey.org/richmond/answers/lunar_lander.html). Besides, everyone with a telescope and a camera is in on it too. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/10 "2003-12-05T04:29:37Z")
There is, however, a reflector array left behind by Apollo 11, which is used to reflect back a laser beam fired from Earth. This is used to take precise measurements of the distance from Earth to the Moon. More information on this [here.](http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhelp/ApolloLaser.html)
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/11 "2003-12-05T04:45:46Z")
No telescope ever constructed could possibly see the flag and other lunar mission remains, not even the Hubble. It’s utterly impossible.
It IS possible to bounce a laser beam off a reflector that was placed on the Moon for that very purpose by the astronauts - although you’d need a hell of a laser and exact instructions on where to point it. (Your $19 laser pointer is not quite up to the task.)
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### Author:  [@Donut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donut)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/12 "2003-12-05T06:52:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> No, they’re not visible. If they were visible, then…they’d be visible. Someone would have seen them and the information would be out there, “Hey, look, you can see the Apollo stuff from Earth”, and that would blow the “moon landing hoax believers” right out of the water. They’d have no case.
The hoax believers already have no case and have, on many occasions, been blown out of the water. I doubt a little thing like being able to see the lander with a telescope would sway them. I’m sure they would say (quite rightly) that an unmanned mission could have planted them.
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### Author:  [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/13 "2003-12-05T08:30:13Z")
I’d always wondered why the people think the _Russians_ would have gone along with the hoax.
I mean, wouldn’t Tass and _Pravda_ have been screaming their collective head off if the KGB had caught even a whiff of a hoax?
For that matter…how many people would it have taken to fake _all_ of the moon landings? Hundreds? Thousands? And _none_ of them have broken their silence, in almost 35 years?
And if the hoaxes were so successful, why stop them? We could have had fake lunar missions running for _decades,_ and embezzled all of the NASA funding, or used our technological triumph to further humiliate the commies, or something.
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### Author:  [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/14 "2003-12-05T14:38:27Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Ranchoth \*
> **I mean, wouldn’t Tass and _Pravda_ have been screaming their collective head off if the KGB had caught even a whiff of a hoax?**
‘Caught a whiff,’ nothin.’ The Russkies were damn well tracking the movement of our spacecraft with radar, as well as monitoring all our radio transmisisons, and it’s not that hard to tell where a radio signal is coming from. If we didn’t go to the Moon, they sure as shootin’ knew about it.
The hoaxers who realize that this is a problem say that the USSR didn’t reveal the truth because their own space program was a sham, too, and they didn’t want _us_ to discredit them in return.
BTW, the little crosses are called _reseau marks_. They’re used to help make measurements of distances the picture and to correct those measurements for optical distortion.
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### Author:  [@Tedster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tedster)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/15 "2003-12-05T15:05:22Z")
There is no “other side” or “pro-moon” arguments, as a point of order.
Those phrases subtly imply there is legitimacy in the concept of a faked moon landing.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/16 "2003-12-05T18:36:45Z")
So, the moon lander and flag can’t be seen by telescopes (even the Hubble)?
I’ve gotta ask…why not?
There’s no atmosphere between the Hubble and the surface of the moon, correct? So why can’t it see it?
-Joe, not an astronomer
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### Author:  [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/17 "2003-12-05T18:47:48Z")
Let’s say the flag is 4 feet across. The moon is roughly 250,000 miles away. At that distance the flag has an angular size of about 3 x 10[sup]-9[/sup] degrees (if I’ve done the math right), which is well below Hubble’s resolving power.
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### Author:  [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/18 "2003-12-05T18:48:33Z")
**Merijeek** , I suggest that you take a look at the links **Duck Duck Goose** posted earlier. The short answer is that the Moon movess too fast and the objects are too small for the Hubble. The links give the whys and wherefores.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/19 "2003-12-05T18:57:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by paperbackwriter \*
> \*\ ***Merijeek** , I suggest that you take a look at the links **Duck Duck Goose** posted earlier. The short answer is that the Moon movess too fast and the objects are too small for the Hubble. The links give the whys and wherefores. \*\*
Okay, so it’s a matter of speed, resolution, and such. That I can accept.
It just didn’t seem right to me that we could look at a star lightyears away, but couldn’t see a flag only 250,000 miles away.
Only thing I could come up with on my own was that it was on the far side of a crater wall or something half-assed like that.
-Joe, suddenly better informed
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [December 5, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-moon-landing-id-like-to-hear-the-pro-moon-side/217059/20 "2003-12-05T19:00:22Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Podkayne \*
> \*\*The Russkies were damn well tracking the movement of our spacecraft with radar, as well as monitoring all our radio transmisisons, and it’s not that hard to tell where a radio signal is coming from. If we didn’t go to the Moon, they sure as shootin’ knew about it.
>
> The hoaxers who realize that this is a problem say that the USSR didn’t reveal the truth because their own space program was a sham, too, and they didn’t want _us_ to discredit them in return.\*\*
Actually, it wiould have revealed that _Russia does not actually exist_. It is a scam invented by the military complex. Have _you_ ever been to Russia? Hmmmm?
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