# fake news, this time out of Germany **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 21, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499 "2018-12-21T18:00:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wilson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@Wilson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wilson)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/21 "2018-12-21T23:02:23Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Ain’t these the guys who bought those phony Hitler diaries? That was Stern, not Der Spiegel. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/22 "2018-12-21T23:15:56Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Perhaps OP is carefully noting any “fake news!” item that he encounters, and making public declarations for informative purposes. I’m surprised he had to go all the way to Germany. Probably wasn’t aware of Fox, Alex Jones, etc. In the absence of any explanation or justification from the OP about the relevance of this asinine anecdote, I assume that must be it! Perhaps while Putin hammers away trying to undermine western democracies, our friend the OP wishes to do his bit by undermining western media. The less people are willing to believe legitimate media, the easier it is for congenital liars like Trump to exercise their malignancy. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/23 "2018-12-21T23:23:55Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > In the absence of any explanation or justification from the OP about the relevance of this asinine anecdote, I assume that must be it! Perhaps while Putin hammers away trying to undermine western democracies, our friend the OP wishes to do his bit by undermining western media. The less people are willing to believe legitimate media, the easier it is for congenital liars like Trump to exercise their malignancy. “western media” is doing a fine job of undermining _itself_. [Gallup - Americans: Much Misinformation, Bias, Inaccuracy in News](https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/235796/americans-misinformation-bias-inaccuracy-news.aspx) [The Hill - Poll: 72 percent say traditional outlets ‘report news they know to be fake, false, or purposely misleading’](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/394352-poll-72-percent-say-traditional-outlets-report-news-they-know-to-be-fake-false) [Columbia Journalism Review - Most Americans say they have lost trust in the media](https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/trust-in-media-down.php) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/24 "2018-12-21T23:43:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “western media” is doing a fine job of undermining _itself_. > > [Gallup - Americans: Much Misinformation, Bias, Inaccuracy in News](https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/235796/americans-misinformation-bias-inaccuracy-news.aspx) > > [The Hill - Poll: 72 percent say traditional outlets ‘report news they know to be fake, false, or purposely misleading’](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/394352-poll-72-percent-say-traditional-outlets-report-news-they-know-to-be-fake-false) > > [Columbia Journalism Review - Most Americans say they have lost trust in the media](https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/trust-in-media-down.php) 1. That wasn’t the question. The question was, what do _ **YOU** _ think you’re proving _ **WITH THIS RIDICULOUS ANECDOTE** _? We know dishonest journalists exist, just like bad and dishonest doctors, lawyers, and accountants. They turn up every once in a while. But does this tell us anything useful about the overall state of any of their professions? 2. Your cites are worthless. None of them say anything about what the mainstream media _ **IS** _; all of them are about _ **what Americans think** _ the media is. Perhaps because of worthless innuendoes and anecdotes like yours. And what many Americans _ **think** _ can also be measured in terms of what they think about climate change, what they think about biological evolution, or what they think about the safety and efficacy of vaccines. It bears a strong correlation to bullshit misinformation, and often little relation to reality. This bit from the _Columbia Journalism Review_ also got my attention (emphasis mine): Is this decline in trust related to the repeated attacks on “the lying media” by President Trump and his supporters, who like to describe the press as “the enemy of the people?” That kind of analysis is beyond the scope of the latest Knight/Gallup study, _ **but it has to be part of the backdrop. Respondents who said they paid the least amount of attention to the news were among those who mistrusted the media the most** _—is that because all they hear about the media is that it makes things up and is out to get the president? Keep hammering away at ignorant hillbillies and knuckle-dragging troglodytes with those kinds of political messages and eventually the stupider and least attentive ones – like Trump followers and Fox News watchers – start to believe it. Joseph Goebbels had that principle all figured out. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/25 "2018-12-21T23:48:58Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “western media” is doing a fine job of undermining _itself_. > > [Gallup - Americans: Much Misinformation, Bias, Inaccuracy in News](https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/235796/americans-misinformation-bias-inaccuracy-news.aspx) > > [The Hill - Poll: 72 percent say traditional outlets ‘report news they know to be fake, false, or purposely misleading’](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/394352-poll-72-percent-say-traditional-outlets-report-news-they-know-to-be-fake-false) > > [Columbia Journalism Review - Most Americans say they have lost trust in the media](https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/trust-in-media-down.php) Read those again, they make the point that Republicans and conservatives are the ones that are increasing on that **opinion** and Trump is one of the big reasons why. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/26 "2018-12-22T00:10:15Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Read those again, they make the point that Republicans and conservatives are the ones that are increasing on that **opinion** and Trump is one of the big reasons why. 72% of the country. That’s more than just Republicans and conservatives. > [@](#): > > It found the sentiment extends to those who identify as independents and Democrats, with 79 percent of independents also saying traditional outlets knowingly report false or misleading stories at least sometimes. Democrats agree by a slight majority of 53 percent. ETA: also worth noting, this is a trend that preceded President Trump: > [@](#): > > Trust in media was once at 74 percent in 1976 in the post-Watergate reporting era, according to Gallup. > > That number dropped to 32 percent in 2016, the last time Gallup polled on the question. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/27 "2018-12-22T00:24:11Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > He didn’t think some people might have searched for the article a foreign journalist spent 3 weeks in their town researching? That’s actually not how he got caught. It’s more troubling. He still almost got away with it. ([Cite](http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/claas-relotius-reporter-forgery-scandal-a-1244755.html)) > [@](#): > > It was one fabricated story too many, because this time, he had a co-author, who sounded the alarm while also collecting facts to counter his fiction. That co-author, Juan Moreno, has been traveling the world as a reporter for DER SPIEGEL since 2007. In the dispute with and surrounding Relotius, Moreno risked his own job, at times even desperately seeking to re-report his colleague’s claims at his own expense. Moreno would go through three or four weeks of hell because his colleagues and senior editors in Hamburg didn’t initially believe that Relotius could be nothing more than a liar. > > In late November and into early December, some at DER SPIEGEL even believed that Moreno was the real phony and that Relotius was the victim of slander. Relotius skillfully parried all allegations and all of Moreno’s well-researched evidence, constantly coming up with new ways of sowing doubt, plausibly refuting accusations and twisting the truth in his favor. I hope Juan Moreno gets one of those awards that Relotius had collected for his fiction. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/28 "2018-12-22T00:38:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > “western media” is doing a fine job of undermining _itself_. > > [Gallup - Americans: Much Misinformation, Bias, Inaccuracy in News](https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/235796/americans-misinformation-bias-inaccuracy-news.aspx) > > [The Hill - Poll: 72 percent say traditional outlets ‘report news they know to be fake, false, or purposely misleading’](https://thehill.com/homenews/media/394352-poll-72-percent-say-traditional-outlets-report-news-they-know-to-be-fake-false) > > [Columbia Journalism Review - Most Americans say they have lost trust in the media](https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/trust-in-media-down.php) All this means is that there’s an incredible amount of stupid people out there who think anything they don’t want to be true is actually false. if the media said the sky was blue, these idiots would yell “fake news!” what’s true and false is not a matter of opinion, nor is it something you can poll people on. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/29 "2018-12-22T02:09:32Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > 72% of the country. That’s more than just Republicans and conservatives. This sounds a lot like when conservatives ignored that a good number of people that opposed the ACA was because a good number of liberals thought that it was inadequate and better solutions were available. That made the polls to give conservatives a misleading view of what was going on, what happened was while most people opposed the ACA, most also realized that the replacements proposed were worse and so the support grew from the ones that wanted something better before. In a bit of a reverse, now a lot of the polling results of the media comes IMHO from liberals \*\*that include FOX news and corporate media into consideration. \*\* > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > ETA: also worth noting, this is a trend that preceded President Trump: From the last link you posted: > **[Most Americans say they have lost trust in the media](https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/trust-in-media-down.php)** > > The results of a new Knight Foundation and Gallup poll released on Tuesday won’t come as a huge surprise to most journalists: Trust in the media is down. Again. A majority of those who were surveyed said they had lost trust in the media in recent... > [@](#): > > Is this decline in trust related to the repeated attacks on “the lying media” by President Trump and his supporters, who like to describe the press as “the enemy of the people?” That kind of analysis is beyond the scope of the latest Knight/Gallup study, but it has to be part of the backdrop. Respondents who said they paid the least amount of attention to the news were among those who mistrusted the media the most—is that because all they hear about the media is that it makes things up and is out to get the president? > > **When people were asked why they don’t trust the media, about 45 percent referred to things like inaccuracy, bias, “fake news,” and “alternative facts,” the latter two being common descriptions given by Donald Trump and members of his administration.** A general lack of credibility and the fact that reports are “based on opinions or emotions” are two of the other reasons given for a loss of trust. About 10 percent of those surveyed also mentioned sensationalism, “clickbait,” or hype as a negative factor. Interestingly, twice as many young adults (18 to 34) as older respondents said politically focused coverage or partisan bias was a factor in their lack of trust. > > The study did try to come up with a few rays of light. For example, the survey asked people whether they thought their trust in media might be restored somehow, and almost 70 percent of them said yes—60 percent of those who identified themselves as Republicans and 86 percent of those who said they were Democrats. And what might restore that lost trust? Respondents chose a variety of factors such as accuracy (including “not reporting stories before [a news outlet] verifies all the facts and being willing to correct mistakes it makes”), as well as lack of bias, and transparency (including “providing fact-checking resources and providing links to research and facts that back up [the news outlet’s] reporting”). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/30 "2018-12-22T02:33:48Z")
This thread has potential. It has the potential to **be** something. Something big! This thread has the potential to be the start of the all encompassing omnibus fake news thread! ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/31 "2018-12-22T05:22:54Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > 1. That wasn’t the question. The question was, what do _ **YOU** _ think you’re proving _ **WITH THIS RIDICULOUS ANECDOTE** _? We know dishonest journalists exist, just like bad and dishonest doctors, lawyers, and accountants. They turn up every once in a while. But does this tell us anything useful about the overall state of any of their professions? > > 2. Your cites are worthless. None of them say anything about what the mainstream media _ **IS** _; all of them are about _ **what Americans think** _ the media is. Perhaps because of worthless innuendoes and anecdotes like yours. > > And what many Americans _ **think** _ can also be measured in terms of what they think about climate change, what they think about biological evolution, or what they think about the safety and efficacy of vaccines. It bears a strong correlation to bullshit misinformation, and often little relation to reality. This bit from the _Columbia Journalism Review_ also got my attention (emphasis mine): > Is this decline in trust related to the repeated attacks on “the lying media” by President Trump and his supporters, who like to describe the press as “the enemy of the people?” That kind of analysis is beyond the scope of the latest Knight/Gallup study, _ **but it has to be part of the backdrop. Respondents who said they paid the least amount of attention to the news were among those who mistrusted the media the most** _—is that because all they hear about the media is that it makes things up and is out to get the president? > > Keep hammering away at ignorant hillbillies and knuckle-dragging troglodytes with those kinds of political messages and eventually the stupider and least attentive ones – like Trump followers and Fox News watchers – start to believe it. Joseph Goebbels had that principle all figured out. What I see proved is that he needs the ideas of ‘MSM bias’ and lying to be true, and accepted by everyone as true, b/c he \*knows \*it’s true! He’s not about to let reality alter what he _knows_. [Like the Tangerine Toddler feels about his gut.](https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/news/a26154/trump-uses-instincts-for-accusations/) ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/32 "2018-12-22T11:02:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Did you read the article I cited? The second paragraph says this: you seem to have a challenge with the numerical analysis… ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/33 "2018-12-22T15:49:54Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > you seem to have a challenge with the numerical analysis… Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/34 "2018-12-22T18:22:20Z")
Speaking about the point made, when liberals and independents are asked they are bound to skew the poll numbers because they can not exclude trash like this: > **[Note to Michael Flynn: Federal Court Is Not Twitter](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/12/how-michael-flynns-lawyers-messed/578503/)** > > A muscular public-relations strategy is often a terrible litigation strategy. > [@](#): > > **For a year, online conspiracy theorists and marginal publications have argued that Sullivan would dismiss the case because the government failed to turn over exculpatory material, or because his interview was conducted incorrectly. Since Flynn filed his sentencing brief, more mainstream outlets, including Fox News and The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page, have taken up the cause, proclaiming that the FBI broke the law in its interview. Those arguments are, and have always been, errant nonsense** , as any legal professional should know. Could it be that Flynn and his lawyers included the disastrous Flynn-as-victim pitch in their brief because they came to accept the partisan din—because they forgot that federal judges don’t react like people on Twitter? That would be a very 2018 way to go to federal prison. As noted by the Columbia Journalism Review: “Respondents chose a variety of factors such as accuracy (including “not reporting stories before [a news outlet] verifies all the facts and being willing to correct mistakes it makes”), as well as lack of bias, and transparency (including “providing fact-checking resources and providing links to research and facts that back up [the news outlet’s] reporting”).” Confronted with issues like the Flynn conviction most people would indeed realize that besides inaccurate, Some media are also unwilling to correct mistakes that do go against the biased view of their viewers or readers (as usually FOX news and their ilk does), Those issues seen coming from FOX or The Wall Street Journal are then included in the whole picture and drag down the polling numbers IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/35 "2018-12-22T19:10:01Z")
Der Spiegel has also engaged in questionable reporting about influenza vaccination, boosting fears about side effects (as opposed to dangers of flu infection) and credulously citing antivax hero Thomas Jefferson.\* > [@Bill\_Door](#): > > Ha Ha! The reputation of Americans is so bad that professional journalists believed this story that made us look like enormous buffoons! I guess the joke is on…them? Yes. If you’re xenophobically foolish enough to believe the worst about Americans and don’t do your job, you look, well, like enormous buffoons. 🙂 \*not the Monticello dude. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/36 "2018-12-22T22:11:55Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Der Spiegel has also engaged in questionable reporting about influenza vaccination, boosting fears about side effects … If we’re going to turn this into a thread devoted to sharing our pet peeves about media, I can play, too. The media have also done a bit of disservice to public understanding of climate change, because, sad to say, in matters of science most journalists are scientific illiterates, and in the putative pursuit of “balance”, when they publish yet another alarming announcement from the published scientific community, they feel obliged to include quotes and commentary supposedly representing “the other side” and its sentiments of disagreement. Except the quoted authority for “the other side” is invariably a well-known total crackpot spouting gibberish, usually some octogenarian long since retired from an unrelated scientific discipline or having no science background at all. The reasons for this include the fact that the media loves controversy, and the journalists themselves don’t necessarily know better on scientific or very technical matters. But note that, contrary to the ridiculous implied but unstated implications of the OP, as is his usual custom, this is not the same as saying that the media has a consistent political or ideological bias, except the bias toward making money, and as Noam Chomsky once said, “as a broad generalization, I think it is fair to say that the media adopt the basic framework of state and private power, mostly uncritically”. The real problem with media, mostly in America, is that commercial media alone does not serve the public well. It isn’t that it’s persistently biased in any political sense, except for the liberal bias inherent in truth and reality, and obvious political agencies like Fox News which is simply a cheerleader for anything Republican. As per my earlier cite, the generalization that Trump’s core base of support consists largely of disaffected ignorant and mostly racist morons is essentially correct, notwithstanding that _Der Spiegel_’s attestation of the fact came from a disreputable lazy journalist prone to making things up. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/37 "2018-12-22T22:45:01Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > If we’re going to turn this into a thread devoted to sharing our pet peeves about media, I can play, too. The media have also done a bit of disservice to public understanding of climate change, because, sad to say, in matters of science most journalists are scientific illiterates, and in the putative pursuit of “balance”, when they publish yet another alarming announcement from the published scientific community, they feel obliged to include quotes and commentary supposedly representing “the other side” and its sentiments of disagreement. Except the quoted authority for “the other side” is invariably a well-known total crackpot spouting gibberish, usually some octogenarian long since retired from an unrelated scientific discipline or having no science background at all. > > The reasons for this include the fact that the media loves controversy, and the journalists themselves don’t necessarily know better on scientific or very technical matters. But note that, contrary to the ridiculous implied but unstated implications of the OP, as is his usual custom, this is not the same as saying that the media has a consistent political or ideological bias, except the bias toward making money, and as Noam Chomsky once said, “as a broad generalization, I think it is fair to say that the media adopt the basic framework of state and private power, mostly uncritically”. The real problem with media, mostly in America, is that commercial media alone does not serve the public well. It isn’t that it’s persistently biased in any political sense, except for the liberal bias inherent in truth and reality, and obvious political agencies like Fox News which is simply a cheerleader for anything Republican. As per my earlier cite, the generalization that Trump’s core base of support consists largely of disaffected ignorant and mostly racist morons is essentially correct, notwithstanding that _Der Spiegel_’s attestation of the fact came from a disreputable lazy journalist prone to making things up. this, exactly. “journalism” seems to be satisfied with just telling us “One side says it’s bright and sunny. The other side says it’s the middle of the night. There, balance. You decide!” what journalists should be doing is looking out the window and seeing what it actually is. 'cos it might be cloudy and raining. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/38 "2018-12-22T23:32:26Z")
Dang. Der Spiegel has only got another 2,225 fake news stories to catch up to Fox News. They should promote that reporter to editor in chief if they are ever going to carry their part of the load! ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499/39 "2018-12-23T17:42:45Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Der Spiegel has also engaged in questionable reporting about influenza vaccination, boosting fears about side effects (as opposed to dangers of flu infection) and credulously citing antivax hero Thomas Jefferson.\*Yes. If you’re xenophobically foolish enough to believe the worst about Americans and don’t do your job, you look, well, like enormous buffoons. 🙂 > > \*not the Monticello dude. I dunno, If somebody went around to all my friends and said I was too dumb to pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were printed on the heel and they all nodded sagely and said “Yup; sounds like **Bill Door** ” I don’t know that I would be so pleased to note that I was, in fact, smart enough to pour piss out of a boot. I would be more concerned about why my friends thought I was such an idiot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-news-this-time-out-of-germany/826499.md?page=1)