# Fake Nostradamus predictions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2001, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393 "2001-11-14T21:51:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/1 "2001-11-14T21:51:12Z")
Snopes give no indication in this article on bogus Nostradamus propecies as to where such a version can be located in its entirety. If you read this link you will see what I mean. [http://www.snopes2.com/](http://www.snopes2.com/) They discuss how Neil Marshall altered the Nostradamus text in an essay published on the internet and how others added to his work but there is no information given on where to find a “standard” Nostradamus fake or, I suppose, even if one exists. I am more grounded than I seem and, in my opinion, Neil Marshall’s essay says everything about Nostradamus that anyone needs to know. However, something someone said in my How Did Mr Bush Learn To Speak Proper thread about journalists inspired me to pursue the idea that game playing among groups of people should be given correct focus. It is a rational and reasonable idea to believe, not that Nostradamus predictions are true but that a group or individual could conspire to make them true as part of their political agenda. The “made up” stanzas which were created before the WTC are very accurate in their descriptions aren’t they? The originals don’t possess that quality and that is the whole point of Skeptics everywhere. So, is there a fuller, altered version available? ---
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/2 "2001-11-14T21:56:31Z")
Sorry, that link just goes to Snopes homepage and I don’t understand why. If you are interested enter Nostradamus in their search engine and click the first link you get. That’s the one I copied, but it didn’t paste. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/3 "2001-11-14T21:59:03Z")
What the heck is your question? 😕 James Randi ( [http://www.randi.org](http://www.randi.org) ) is a bit of a Nostradamus expert and has written quite a bit about the fake Sep 11 prophecy on his website. ---
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/4 "2001-11-14T22:49:45Z")
Snopes talks about “later versions” and “enhanced versions” of Marshall’s fake Nostradamus prophecies one of which includes this stanza: On the 11th day of the 9 month, two metal birds will crash into two tall statues in the new city, and the world will end soon after. ---
**Author:** ![Gaspode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gaspode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaspode)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/5 "2001-11-14T22:58:30Z")
Do a search, this has been covered somewhere on these boards since the event, possibly comments on Cecils Columns. It’s a complete fabrication where lines were taken out of several different quatrains and other parts just made up, that’s why you can’t find an original. It’s enhanced in the same way that celebrity heads pasted onto the bodies of naked pornstars are ‘enhanced’, an interesting euphemism for ‘completely manufactured’. ---
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/6 "2001-11-14T23:07:42Z")
Whether Nostradamus wrote that stanza or not is completely irrelevant. That those words apparently existed before the terrorist attack is what is relevant. My point is not that they were predictive or prophetic (even inadvertently) but that they were made use of by the wrong people. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/7 "2001-11-14T23:13:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by G. Nome \* > The “made up” stanzas which were created before the WTC are very accurate in their descriptions aren’t they? Which stanzas were made up **before** 11 September 2001, that are “very accurate” in their descriptions? Going to the [snopes article](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/predict.htm) (the snopes website uses frames, scroll to the bottom of the page to find a direct link to the article) says that this is the original (translated): > [@](#): > > Five and forty steps the sky will burn > Fire approaching the large new city > Instantly a great thin flame will leap > When someone will want to test the Normans. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/8 "2001-11-14T23:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by G. Nome \* > Snopes talks about “later versions” and “enhanced versions” > of Marshall’s fake Nostradamus prophecies one of which includes this stanza: > > On the 11th day of the 9 month, > two metal birds will crash into two tall statues > in the new city, > and the world will end soon after. Where in the Snopes article does it say that this “enhanced version” appeared **before** 11 September 2001? ---
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/9 "2001-11-14T23:16:04Z")
What I mean is, those words weren’t, at the time they were written, predictive or prophetic. They weren’t written by anyone with any “psychic ability” whether it was Nostradamus or Neil Marshall. However, it is possible to consider isn’t it, that someone actualised them, made them come true? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/10 "2001-11-14T23:21:48Z")
Um, no. The parts about the metal birds and the tall towers appeared nowhere before September 11. So the only “actualization” was the writer’s actually making up verses after the event. ---
**Author:** ![Kamandi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5daacb/32.png) [@Kamandi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamandi)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/11 "2001-11-14T23:25:24Z")
From James Randi’s website: [http://www.randi.org/jr/091701.html](http://www.randi.org/jr/091701.html) > [@](#): > > The quote being circulated reads: “In the year of the new century and nine months…” That would be September, 2001. No, Nostradamus wrote, “The year 1999, seventh month…” (Century X, verse 72) Nostradamus did write a verse that contained, “At 45 degrees the sky will burn, fire to approach the great new city…” (Century VI, verse 97) One problem here is that New York City is at 41 degrees north latitude, not 45. Other cities such as Portland and Salem, Oregon, and Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and Rochester, New York, are much closer to 45 degrees north latitude. And, Turin, Italy and Bucharest, Roumania, are also at that latitude. But what about cities that are really at 45 degrees south latitude, or those at 45 degrees east or west longitude? Those don’t “almost” fit, so they’re ignored. > > Also, “the great new city” hardly applies to New York. It’s 315 years old! And the fire didn’t “approach” the city, it blossomed right in its heart. Honestly, **G. Nome** , is English your first language? What the heck are you asking? ---
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/12 "2001-11-14T23:33:03Z")
Arnold Winkelried: No, Snopes do not indicate when that stanza was written. They say that Neil Marshall wrote his essay in 1997 and only that his text has been altered and added to since that time. Does anyone know for sure? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2001, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/13 "2001-11-14T23:44:57Z")
Without knowing for sure when the stanzas were written, I would say it’s a pretty safe bet that if some text is claiming to exactly describe a “future” event, the text was already written before. As far as a group of (allegedly) arab terrorists deciding to plan their attack to fulfill a “fake” prophecy based upon the web page of a canadian student that was trying to disprove the predictive powers of Nostradamus, why would they do that? That seems almost as unlikely as the first hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![jack\_ss](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jack\_ss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jack_ss)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/14 "2001-11-15T02:46:27Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s enhanced in the same way that celebrity heads pasted onto the bodies of naked pornstars are ‘enhanced’, an interesting euphemism for ‘completely manufactured’. You mean that’s not Brittney Spears and ‘N’ Synch on those banner adds? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/15 "2001-11-15T02:55:16Z")
Obviously the predictions that don’t come true are the fake ones 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/16 "2001-11-15T03:29:32Z")
Hmmm. I think I’ve found the rest of it. Here it is: And soon the man Who resembles the tip of the queue, Kasim Found love from many Including the cross yellow marionette Yep. I found it printed right here in a copy of the 1992 Herndon Observer, which I was using to prop up my couch. I’m just going to go outside and sunbathe now. Sofa King August 26, 2001, 11:38 am EST P.S. How 'bout those Diamondbacks, eh? They could go all the way. ---
**Author:** ![Mirage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Mirage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirage)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/17 "2001-11-15T07:55:35Z")
I’m sick of all this nostradamus BS. I thought that this shit was settled the past 10 or so times that he predicted that the world would end and it didn’t. The sooner that the civilized world comes to terms with the fact that prescience doesn’t exist, the sooner that Mz. Cleo stops making money. If she really wanted it after all she could just stop by and pick up a cool million from the [James Randi Foundation](http://www.randi.org/research/) It’s not like modern science hasn’t investigated it, in fact they’ve got all sorts of theories like ‘General Relativity’ which explain why it isn’t possible. ---
**Author:** ![G.Nome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c89c15/32.png) [@G.Nome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Nome)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/18 "2001-11-15T08:25:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > \*\*Without knowing for sure when the stanzas were written, I would say it’s a pretty safe bet that if some text is claiming to exactly describe a “future” event, the text was already written before. > As far as a group of (allegedly) arab terrorists deciding to plan their attack to fulfill a “fake” prophecy based upon the web page of a canadian student that was trying to disprove the predictive powers of Nostradamus, why would they do that? That seems almost as unlikely as the first hypothesis. \*\* No, I don’t see it that way but I’m only too well aware that trying to discuss that viewpoint is risky. If I was to tell the truth a lot of my stuff here alludes to things that are just too difficult to discuss in any satisfactory way. You may have seen my ahem thread, you may not. May be it is time to call it a day (what with pay per fatuous remark coming up and all). Game playing, by people in organised groups is surely an inevitable part of human nature. The game could be anything at all. A group of people with powerful jobs could use them to achieve some aim (as in the film Sleepers, I suppose) or they could pick a victim and orchestrate events in that person’s life. That last aircrash could be the result of infiltration of aircraft maintenance industry by a group of anti-American white people. Why the hell not? I suppose there are limits to healthy supposition although real science requires a totally open mind doesn’t it? You know Moslems aren’t all that…uncosmopolitan. I knew an Afghan guy briefly once. He asked me out. I’ll pray he never reads this (not a chance in hell, probably) but what a sleazebag! He had a wife in Afghanistan, he told me that - several times. He said she would be pregnant in three days when she arrived here [sic]. Then he asked me out again. I’d always wanted a rug and everything but I decided to stick with my sheepskin. ---
**Author:** ![Gaspode](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/aeb1de/32.png) [@Gaspode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaspode)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/19 "2001-11-15T08:37:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Everything originally posted by G. Nome 😕 ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2001, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393/20 "2001-11-15T13:37:52Z")
Nome, honey, you really need to have another talk with your doctor. He may need to adjust the dosages. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fake-nostradamus-predictions/93393.md?page=2)