# Falcon and the Winter Soldier (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, disney-hulu\ **Created:** [March 19, 2021, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217 "2021-03-19T08:44:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/1 "2021-03-19T08:44:33Z")
Solid first episode. The opening action scene was great, and made good use of Sam’s flying rig. Loved that they brought back Batroc, and also cemented him as “The guy Captain America beats up in the opening action scene.” Also dug the Don Cheadle cameo - I hope we get a little War Machine at some point, too. Bucky Barnes following a 12 step program for recovering assassins was great. I thought at first the old guy was one of the Howling Commandos, but making him the father of one of the Winter Soldier’s victims is brutal. I like that the Flagsmashers are basically #ThanosWasRight. That’s a solid reinterpretation, and draws the focus away from them just being anti-Nationalists, which is kind of not a bad thing. Anyway, small surprise, but I’m sold on it. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/2 "2021-03-19T09:01:54Z")
Just saw it myself, and I’ll add a few more thoughts. This is a set-up episode, really. They look into Sam and Bucky’s lives, and where they’re at. Short answer, not great. Sam’s family business (run by his sister) is going under, and they can’t get a loan. Seems when everyone came back, what would have been a shoo-in became impossible; too many people need help, is the undercurrent (IMO). Bucky’s trying to find peace in himself, by making amends…in his own signature style, in one case. 😃 He’s befriended the old guy that **Miller** mentioned ; he may 'fess up, but he hasn’t yet. We get a look at the post-Blip world, and things are not going well at all. As I mentioned, there’s a lot of readjustment going on, trying to deal with the…3 billion?..people who just showed up. There’s an undercurrent of resentment to the Returned, I think, as well. Anyway, this episode is mostly about setting the stage. It’s good, and I’m wanting more. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/3 "2021-03-19T09:10:34Z")
Forgot to mention, there may well be an element of racism in Sam and his sister not getting a loan - at least, his sister is pretty sure that there is. Certainly, the loan officer was _not_ taking the whole thing very seriously from the get-go. That said, them not having any income over the last five years…well. Lots to chew over and digest in that ~45 minutes, in any event. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/4 "2021-03-19T10:13:56Z")
Interesting start. Definitely looks like they’re doing an adaptation of the USAgent storyline with the “new Captain America”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/5 "2021-03-19T14:33:01Z")
Loved it. Same tone as CA:TWS, perhaps the best MCU movie overall. ---
**Author:** ![Scoobysnax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Scoobysnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scoobysnax)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/6 "2021-03-19T17:36:33Z")
WandaVision took a few episodes to grow on me so I will give this show a similar chance. The fight/action sequence at the start of the episode threw me off early and it took a while to pull me back in. It was a bit too far fetched even for a comic book show. The lack of any air movement on the plane after the door was blown off was just bad. Having flown on a C130, the noise of the propellers on a transport plane are deafening in normal flight. I can’t imagine how loud it is with the back open (the start of the episode) or with the side missing on the second plane. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/7 "2021-03-19T18:49:45Z")
I know I will feel stupid as soon as I see the answer but who is the new Captain America? Is it someone we should know and I am completely face blind? ---
**Author:** ![Tusculan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Tusculan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tusculan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/8 "2021-03-19T19:04:13Z")
I’m also curious. He has very distinct facial features, even visible under the mask, but I couldn’t place him. As for the rest of the episode, the action scene at the beginning was far too long and got boring as the stakes were so low. The episode as a whole moved rather slowly, but as said above, we may have to be patient while they prepare the table. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/9 "2021-03-19T19:08:02Z")
It’s a new character in the MCU. If he looks a little familiar, it might be because he’s being played by Kurt Russel’s son, Wyatt. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/10 "2021-03-19T20:05:50Z")
The new Cap is a long established character in the comics, so some possible spoilers are easy to find online if you’re interested. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/11 "2021-03-19T20:13:31Z")
Yeah, I’m _really_ interested in seeing how they handle him in the current political climate. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/12 "2021-03-19T23:07:30Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > …them not having any income over the last five years…well. _Sam_ didn’t have any income over the last five years. The sister did, but her expenses outstripped her income. I thought that was an interesting insight into the world of “the little people” in a post-Snap/post-Blip world. The rules haven’t caught up to the reality, and returnees like Sam are caught in a bind. It really must have created a financial mess. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2021, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/13 "2021-03-19T23:27:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I hope we get a little War Machine at some point, too. I suspect he’ll get his chance to shine in the upcoming _Armor Wars_ show. That’s probably also how they’ll introduce Riri Williams and Ironheart. Re the episode: I really liked it, a lot more than I expected to. Yes, it’s setup, in terms of introducing the current status quo and establishing a foundation to work from, but it’s a _rich_ setup. There are some real problems in the world generally, and with our heroes specifically. This is the deepest look into Bucky since he was introduced, and he’s struggling with himself in a genuinely interesting way. And it’s great to meet the family and regular folks around Sam, and see how it’s been his intelligence and positive attitude that have carried him — and how hurt he is when his good intentions are betrayed. Both Sebastian Stan and Anthony Mackie look thrilled at the opportunity to step out of the second-banana role and truly carry the story, and they’re both bringing it. From the trailers, this looked like a fun but shallow odd-couple action comedy, like an MCU Tango and Cash. And maybe they’re still planning to play that card, but they’re also announcing with the opening episode that that won’t be _all_ it is, by a long shot. Obviously it’s early yet, and with one episode we don’t have a lot to go on, but it’s a damn solid first episode. I really appreciate how much time they’re making for the small character details, like Bucky’s bit where he’s mildly annoyed by the Maneki-neko in the sushi restaurant, and the subtle gag about its unstoppable arm (get it?). And the reveal showing his connection to Yori was devastating. Super interested to see where it goes. It’s already got a lot of confidence in itself. That’s exciting. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/14 "2021-03-20T00:44:02Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > From the trailers, this looked like a fun but shallow odd-couple action comedy, like an MCU Tango and Cash. And maybe they’re still planning to play that card, but they’re also announcing with the opening episode that that won’t be _all_ it is, by a long shot. After slogging through the grimdark Snyder Cut of _Justice League_ earlier in the day, I was looking forward to an odd-couple, mismatched buddy-cop action-comedy. To be honest, I was a little disappointed by the drama. Not that it was bad in and of itself, but I was expecting something else, and I could have _really_ used super heroes as goofy fun. Now that I’ve readjusted my expectations, I’m interested to see where this series goes. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/15 "2021-03-20T00:47:46Z")
One of the names in Bucky’s apology list is “H. Zemo.” That sounds like it’s going to turn out to be a really fun apology. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/16 "2021-03-20T00:47:56Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If he looks a little familiar, it might be because he’s being played by Kurt Russel’s son, Wyatt. _Sky High_ reference! Maybe! But probably not! ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/17 "2021-03-20T02:20:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > One of the names in Bucky’s apology list is “H. Zemo.” More unfinished business than apologies, considering the lady he had arrested was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/18 "2021-03-20T02:32:07Z")
I really liked it. They set Falcon up as a badass really effectively. Bucky is sympathetic. They hit all the right notes with the setup, establishing ordinary world for both characters, with a little “Denying the call to action” thrown in for good measure. One thing I will say is that I don’t see any creative risks happening anytime soon. For all its flaws, _WandaVision_ was unique. FATWS is very much cut from the MCU cloth. I’m fine with that, but maybe a little disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/19 "2021-03-20T02:50:09Z")
I loved it…but am confused by the Falcon and Sister financial situation. Falcon isn’t being paid??? He’s all kinds of Special Ops. If his sister had full ownership of the boat and house and didn’t want charity, then i can sorta see this working but he owns half. He should have shittons of money and if not could run a Crowdsource and have 1000 times the money in a matter of seconds. Assuming that he doesn’t want to ask Pepper and the Stark Foundation for a loan. Reminds me of the hoops they would make Spider-Man jump through to stay poor. Edit: And by the way…if you want to make racial metaphors and statements mirroring current day, thats the way you do it. Makes sense, organic, not hamfisted and (far as i know) not preceded by a lot of behind the scenes backpatting and audience attacking. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2021, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217/20 "2021-03-20T03:15:23Z")
> [@Pavelb1](#): > > Falcon isn’t being paid??? He’s all kinds of Special Ops. He _is_ being paid. He makes a point that he has government contracts, which is proof of income. The problem the loan officer raises is that he hasn’t had any income for the past five years. That’s because he was Snapped and Blipped, but apparently bank procedures, at least at that one small bank, haven’t adjusted to that. > [@Pavelb1](#): > > He should have shittons of money… Maybe. It’s clear that financial situations are a mess post-Blip. And he may not have had all that much pre-Snap. He was an Air Force veteran but working as a peer counselor when we first meet him. After that, he was an Avenger, and Tony _probably_ paid him some sort of stipend, but we don’t know how much that was, and then he went on the run with Cap’s faction in the Civil War, so he may have lost or spent everything at that point. > [@Pavelb1](#): > > …if not could run a Crowdsource and have 1000 times the money in a matter of seconds. Again, maybe. It’s clear that people have mixed feelings about the Avengers post-Snap, and about “Blippers” or whatever they’re called in-universe post-Blip. He clearly doesn’t have a secret ID, but he also probably doesn’t want to call undue attention to his personal life and his family. And I imagine he’d be reluctant to publicly try to leverage his fame for personal gain. > [@Pavelb1](#): > > Assuming that he doesn’t want to ask Pepper and the Stark Foundation for a loan. I was actually kind of expecting him to do something like that. But he _was_ on the opposite side of Civil War from Tony, and there are still probably some hard feelings on both sides from that. I suspect it would also feel to both Sam and his sister like taking charity, and I think they’re both too proud to do that, at least for now. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-spoilers/938217.md?page=2)