# Fall 2018 Central America migrant caravan to the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313 "2018-10-22T01:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/41 "2018-10-22T16:16:46Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > It’s even worse than that. There IS no crisis. Well yes, you’re right in terms of the big picture. But it seems that there really is a group of thousands of real Hondurans who have fled their country. I don’t know if this qualifies as a “crisis”, but it definitely indicates that things in Honduras are not exactly rosy. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/42 "2018-10-22T16:32:03Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Well yes, you’re right in terms of the big picture. > > But it seems that there really is a group of thousands of real Hondurans who have fled their country. I don’t know if this qualifies as a “crisis”, but it definitely indicates that things in Honduras are not exactly rosy. For sure. Again, not that it gives me any great insight necessarily, but I also lived in Honduras for a couple months – in both the capital, Tegucigalpa, and in the distant rural area of Moskitia, where unfortunately the combination of perpetual demand by US citizens for drugs + efforts by Mexico to re-route much of the drug trafficking = local violence an insecurity where there was none to speak of before (well, except in the 80s, when the US was funding Contras to fight in Nicaragua…) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/43 "2018-10-22T16:41:23Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I had never thought about it that way. That is utterly terrifying. Of all the things that the guy does that show his staggering ignorance about how governments work, and in particular how our government works, \*\*\*this \*\*\*is the one that terrifies you? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/44 "2018-10-22T16:51:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Of all the things that the guy does that show his staggering ignorance about how governments work, and in particular how our government works, \*\*\*this \*\*\*is the one that terrifies you? His ignorance doesn’t terrify me. It’s the authoritarianism. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/45 "2018-10-22T16:59:32Z")
Anyone know how big the group is now? BLS CPS estimates 1.7 million more foreign-born in the US last month than when Trump took office, so I’m seeing this caravan as a blip. That doesn’t mean people’s reactions will be similarly insignificant. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/46 "2018-10-22T17:03:18Z")
I just checked three sites and keep seeing “thousands”. Some good reporting there. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/47 "2018-10-22T17:12:00Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Trump and the GOP will milk every last drip drop of this ‘crisis.’ Polemic works to their advantage. I think the migrant caravan is going to make blue races bluer and red races redder. Liberal areas will see the migrants as people in need of aid and a better life and it will propel their vote. Conservative areas will see a mob, a horde, almost as if the migrants are akin to army ants. It could propel the conservative vote too. Probably boost the Dems in the House and the Republicans in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/48 "2018-10-22T17:50:22Z")
I’m seeing ~7k. How accurate that count is, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/49 "2018-10-22T18:15:21Z")
How are the Mexican thugs responding? What opportunities arise for men with guns, greed, and no humanity to speak of? There _has_ to be an anti-immigrant movement in Mexico, if there were not, Mexico would be qualified for state sainthood. And if that movement makes a deal with the cartel gangsters? Support for the fascists in exchange for less trouble about drugs, maybe a couple of bucks, here and there? Right now, it appears that the _rurales_, the common people of Mexico are reacting with compassion and tolerance, though God knows they have little enough to share. But what happens when they get further north, into territory the cartels essentially own? And of course, the _federales_. What role are they expected to play? Good people see a mass of the helpless and needy. Bad people see a potential bonanza of young women and girls to be harvested. The bad people are well armed, and entirely ruthless. Also, greedy. And so its going. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/50 "2018-10-22T20:28:57Z")
You can bet on CNN and other media outlets the pictures will all be of women and children, while on conservative sites it will be mostly young men. I suspect the truth is in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/51 "2018-10-22T20:36:30Z")
[This page on CNN](https://www.cnn.com/americas/live-news/migrant-caravan-mexico-guatemala/index.html) shows a shocking amount of men in the various videos. Is there a chance you are incorrect about what you think the pictures on CNN will be? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/52 "2018-10-22T20:39:03Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [This morning Trump tweeted that he was going to cut off financial aid to Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador because of the migrants](https://apnews.com/935f7f42e3c34b1e98e211bee16af618).I note that his tweet shows an incredible ignorance of what governments actually do and do not do: most governments of free peoples do not prevent their own citizens from traveling outside their country. Really? These 5k to 7k people are just marching through Mexico on their way to the U.S. for a vacation? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/53 "2018-10-22T20:44:20Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Really? These 5k to 7k people are just marching through Mexico on their way to the U.S. for a vacation? CONGRATULATIONS! This post wins the October 22nd, 2018 SDMB Elections Forum prize for Dumbest Non-Sequitur Response Masquerading As Relevant Commentary To A Previous Post! ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/54 "2018-10-22T21:06:02Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Really? These 5k to 7k people are just marching through Mexico on their way to the U.S. for a vacation? actually they are all going to work at Mar A Lago this winter ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/55 "2018-10-22T21:15:13Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’m seeing ~7k. How accurate that count is, I don’t know. 7200 according to the UN a couple of hours ago, although I’ve heard estimates of at least 7500. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/56 "2018-10-22T21:15:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > CONGRATULATIONS! > > This post wins the October 22nd, 2018 SDMB Elections Forum prize for Dumbest Non-Sequitur Response Masquerading As Relevant Commentary To A Previous Post! It was in reply to your more ridiculous post implying that Trump was suggesting that these countries needed to forcibly keep their own people from “traveling.” Trump is not saying that these countries should imprison their own people a la the Berlin Wall, he is saying that if we are giving you $200 million in foreign aid, then you need to create a society so that people are not leaving in droves. Of course, you knew that, but it was too tempting not to take yet another shot at Trump. Christ, we cannot even have a debate about issues anymore. It’s all about how evil, evil, evil Trump is. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/57 "2018-10-22T21:27:39Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > … Christ, we cannot even have a debate about issues anymore. It’s all about how evil, evil, evil Trump is. This has been largely the case for many months now. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/58 "2018-10-22T21:34:40Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It was in reply to your more ridiculous post implying that Trump was suggesting that these countries needed to forcibly keep their own people from “traveling.” Trump is not saying that these countries should imprison their own people a la the Berlin Wall, he is saying that if we are giving you $200 million in foreign aid, then you need to create a society so that people are not leaving in droves. > > Of course, you knew that, but it was too tempting not to take yet another shot at Trump. Christ, we cannot even have a debate about issues anymore. It’s all about how evil, evil, evil Trump is. "[The President’s] approach to this issue is not helpful. We have very little foreign aid going, and the aid we do have helps them with law enforcement, drug interdiction, and with programs to help that population stay there. Cutting those programs indiscriminately, those benefit us as well, and so that needs to be thoughtfully done. “These, for the most part, overwhelmingly, are people who are either fleeing violence or looking for a better life. We have programs for some of them — asylum programs… obviously we can’t accept everyone. We have to have border security, but it needs to be done in a thoughtful manner.” - Sen. Jeff Flake (R - AZ) [cite 1](https://www.weeklystandard.com/haley-byrd/jeff-flake-pushes-back-on-trumps-caravan-tweets) [cite 2](https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/trump-tells-central-american-countries-of-aid-cuts-over-migrants#gs.C=TrLs8) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/59 "2018-10-22T22:51:34Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It was in reply to your more ridiculous post implying that Trump was suggesting that these countries needed to forcibly keep their own people from “traveling.” Trump is not saying that these countries should imprison their own people a la the Berlin Wall, he is saying that if we are giving you $200 million in foreign aid, then you need to create a society so that people are not leaving in droves. > > Of course, you knew that, but it was too tempting not to take yet another shot at Trump. Christ, we cannot even have a debate about issues anymore. It’s all about how evil, evil, evil Trump is. I didn’t imply anything, Trump said it himself; I even quoted him. I’m given to understand, via his supporters, that he’s a plain-talking straight shooter who says what he means, so that’s how I treat his words: as what he means. And no, your reply wasn’t actually in response to anything I wrote; it was completely irrelevant. I’m awful curious: how do you know what I know? :dubious: I agree that we cannot have debates about issues anymore: one side claims to know what the other side _really_ knows (hint: that’s you and your side). That means you aren’t listening at all, you’re just dismissing everything I say. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/60 "2018-10-23T00:00:06Z")
Taking a step back for a second… is this “caravan” a real thing, in that it is qualitatively different from the normal state of affairs? If so, why now? What triggered it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313.md?page=4)