# Fall 2018 Central America migrant caravan to the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313 "2018-10-22T01:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/61 "2018-10-23T00:18:44Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It was in reply to your more ridiculous post implying that Trump was suggesting that these countries needed to forcibly keep their own people from “traveling.” You clearly had what I hope was merely a temporary lapse in reading comprehension when you read **Bo** ’s post. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/62 "2018-10-23T01:08:08Z")
You must understand, The Leader, Himself, often speaks in parable. Like when he says “Go ahead, beat the snot out of that guy, I’ll pay your legal bills”, he is really making a shrewd and indirect reference to the relationship between law and violence. That’s like, totally parabolic. And passing a new tax cut before November without Congress even being in session! Loaves and fishes, folks, signs and wonders… ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/63 "2018-10-23T01:38:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Taking a step back for a second… is this “caravan” a real thing, in that it is qualitatively different from the normal state of affairs? If so, why now? What triggered it? The overall rate of migration is unchanged (as, say, a moving three-month average). There has been a small uptick recently in those specifically leaving Honduras, in part stemming from violence following disputed elections there. As I mentioned upthread, this year more migrants are traveling in groups than before, to avoid being raped or robbed en route — though it should be noted that individual Mexicans (most rather poor themselves) often show great generosity toward these people. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/64 "2018-10-23T03:29:59Z")
[Explosive Device Found Near George Soros’s Home in Westchester County](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/nyregion/george-soros-explosive-device.html) Spreading Soros caravan conspiracy theories is going to get someone killed. I’m looking at you Matt Gaetz but you’re not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/65 "2018-10-23T03:46:28Z")
Trump is demanding that the Central American countries start prohibiting their countries from coming the America, and if they don’t, he’s going to cut off aid to them. 1-How does a country even pretending to be a democracy stop their citizens from legally leaving the country? 2-The people are coming to the United States because of violence and poverty in their home countries. Does Trump think that by cutting aid there will be some miraculous economic revolution? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/66 "2018-10-23T04:22:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [This morning Trump tweeted that he was going to cut off financial aid to Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador because of the migrants](https://apnews.com/935f7f42e3c34b1e98e211bee16af618).I note that his tweet shows an incredible ignorance of what governments actually do and do not do: most governments of free peoples do not prevent their own citizens from traveling outside their country. > [@EscAlaMike](#): > > I had never thought about it that way. That is utterly terrifying. [I’ve seen a bunch of this guy’s videos over the past few days and he thinks Trump’s comments are terrifying as well](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrSIIZzOGOo). The video is a talking head, a guy named Beau who lives somewhere in the SE US. I find his videos thoughtful, informative and well-reasoned; YMMV. I’m very glad he’s posting these videos. I think he has a good perspective and I hope more people watch and listen to him. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/67 "2018-10-23T06:29:21Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > The overall rate of migration is unchanged (as, say, a moving three-month average). There has been a small uptick recently in those specifically leaving Honduras, in part stemming from violence following disputed elections there. > > As I mentioned upthread, this year more migrants are traveling in groups than before, to avoid being raped or robbed en route — **though it should be noted that individual Mexicans (most rather poor themselves) often show great generosity toward these people.** Bolding mine. When the Mexicans were asked why they were helping these groups, they replied because they are humans. I wish Trump would learn this. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/68 "2018-10-23T07:08:19Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > It was in reply to your more ridiculous post implying that Trump was suggesting that these countries needed to forcibly keep their own people from “traveling.” Trump is not saying that these countries should imprison their own people a la the Berlin Wall, he is saying that if we are giving you $200 million in foreign aid, then you need to create a society so that people are not leaving in droves. This would be more plausible if he hadn’t repeatedly talked about other countries’ governments actively choosing to send or not send migrants to the USA. Look at what he said about the [diversity visa](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/02/26/president-trumps-consistent-misrepresentation-of-how-the-diversity-visa-lottery-works/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a2e2646f58ef) program, for example: “I mean we actually have lottery systems where you go to countries and they do lotteries for who comes into the United States. Now, you know they are not going to have their best people in the lottery, because they’re not going to put their best people in a lottery. They don’t want to have their good people to leave.” ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/69 "2018-10-23T08:05:21Z")
Prediction: this caravan is going to fall apart starting November 7. The timing of this caravan is totally suspicious. Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I’m going with the people on page 1 who suggested this is a Republican sponsored event. Only, of course, not openly so. It shouldn’t take much to organize it, maybe a couple million $ and a couple dozen operatives, if that. The whole thing reeks of a concerted effort to get the Republican base energized. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/70 "2018-10-23T10:57:09Z")
If I had to guess what the hustle is, I’d say that we’ll eventually learn that this “caravan” is actually a pretty routine and unorganized movement of people, and that the suspicious timing is all in the portrayal of it as an unparalleled threat to the integrity of the republic. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/71 "2018-10-23T11:31:03Z")
Wait, this supposed caravan is just now crossing into Mexico _from Guatemala_? People know Mexico is big, right? Even if it stays organized and moves twenty miles a day straight toward Matamoros/Brownsville, it won’t get near the US border until around Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/72 "2018-10-23T12:26:30Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Wait, this supposed caravan is just now crossing into Mexico _from Guatemala_? People know Mexico is big, right? Even if it stays organized and moves twenty miles a day straight toward Matamoros/Brownsville, it won’t get near the US border until around Christmas. In the meantime, [photos](https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/10/photos-migrant-caravan/573604/#img18) [like](https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/10/photos-migrant-caravan/573604/#img19) [these](https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2018/10/photos-migrant-caravan/573604/#img23) make lovely campaign flyers. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/73 "2018-10-23T13:09:08Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > Bolding mine. > > When the Mexicans were asked why they were helping these groups, they replied because they are humans. > > I wish Trump would learn this. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/74 "2018-10-23T14:04:27Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > If I had to guess what the hustle is, I’d say that we’ll eventually learn that this “caravan” is actually a pretty routine and unorganized movement of people, and that the suspicious timing is all in the portrayal of it as an unparalleled threat to the integrity of the republic. I agree. We didn’t even hear about migrant caravans until Trump was in office, yet apparently they’re an annual thing since 2010, and are more of a protest than some kind of actual migrant influx. > **[The Facts Behind 'Caravans' of Immigrants](https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/04/03/caravans-of-immigrants/)** > > President Trump used the occurrence of an annual human rights demonstration as a reason to deploy the military to the United States-Mexico border. That said, I think that if they were what Trump and the GOP is claiming, then maybe they’d have a point to make. It’s not necessarily our problem that a bunch of people packed up, wandered through Mexico and showed up on our border. We may have humanitarian obligations to them, but we don’t have a legal obligation to let them in either. I’m kind of stuck- we seem to be hamstrung every way we look if we don’t want to just accept every Central American immigrant who happens to show up. On one hand, we can’t just tell them to bugger off and leave it to the Mexicans, but nor can we go and clean house in Honduras either- they’re a sovereign nation, no matter how corrupt and lawless they may be. So how do we handle that? Seems like we’re damned if we do, and damned if we don’t. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/75 "2018-10-23T14:44:13Z")
Why isn’t anyone talking about the unknown Middle Easterners that are mixed in? I’ve seen suicide bomb vests strapped to unknown numbers of scary looking people in the photos. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/76 "2018-10-23T14:46:18Z")
> [@bump](#): > > On one hand, we can’t just tell them to bugger off and leave it to the Mexicans, but nor can we go and clean house in Honduras either- they’re a sovereign nation, no matter how corrupt and lawless they may be. So how do we handle that? Seems like we’re damned if we do, and damned if we don’t. Why do you rule out that first On-The-One-Hand option? Let’s say that we _do,_ in fact, feel like telling them to bugger off; and, if they happen to be standing in Mexico when we tell them that, then, okay, by default it gets left “to the Mexicans”. So? ---
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/77 "2018-10-23T14:50:49Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Trump is demanding that the Central American countries start prohibiting their countries from coming the America, and if they don’t, he’s going to cut off aid to them. > 1-How does a country even pretending to be a democracy stop their citizens from legally leaving the country? This is an excellent issue. **Are countries legally and morally responsible for their citizens once they leave?** I don’t know. In this case, the Hondurans are illegally entering other countries. If 7500 members of a white American militia decided to go colonize a part of Honduras, would the USA be obligated to bring them back or even stop them from leaving? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/78 "2018-10-23T15:05:36Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Why isn’t anyone talking about the unknown Middle Easterners that are mixed in? “[That’s] a canard and a fear tactic.” - [Sen. Jeff Flake](https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/trump-tells-central-american-countries-of-aid-cuts-over-migrants#gs.MBLz5VY) ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/79 "2018-10-23T15:05:53Z")
First, is there actually anything happening? Those pictures I see on the teevee make me thing the right wing has decided to steal the “Crisis Actor” tactic… 😃 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/80 "2018-10-23T15:35:54Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > I’ve seen suicide bomb vests strapped to unknown numbers of scary looking people in the photos. No, you haven’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313.md?page=5)