# Fall 2018 Central America migrant caravan to the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 22, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313 "2018-10-22T01:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/121 "2018-10-24T19:33:46Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > This issue appears to be riling up the Republican base. Republicans are making it look like the Democrats are perfectly ok with this caravan just waltzing right across our borders and settling in the US, and the Democrats aren’t doing much to remedy that claim. I think this is probably off-putting to someone in the center or undecided. Honestly, as much as I sympathize with the migrants and would like to accommodate them, except for cases of asylum, I think they should probably be stopped from entering the US. I don’t like it, but that’s our law. And this is from someone who can’t imagine how bad life must be for these people if they are willing to pick up and leave at a moment’s notice for a land that is hostile to them. I’m all for asylum, but I think the Democrats should at least say something. I get what you are saying, and even agree to an extent, but the thing is these folk in this caravan are planning to file for asylum as far as I know. They aren’t jut migrants looking to immigrate in the normal way, they are pretty much refugees seeking asylum from the sort of domino effect of bad shit happening in their area. And with several other nations in the region also melting down or having refugee situations of their own to deal with, especially because of Venezuela, this is a situation we really need to get a handle on. Optimally, what we SHOULD have been doing is helping the regional governments with the issues they are having, especially the melt down in Venezuela, so that we wouldn’t have this sort of mass refugees at our border thingy, but since we didn’t do that we need to step up and start figuring this shit out. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/122 "2018-10-24T19:35:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Because there is no indication that the people in the caravan don’t plan on oapplying for asylum at the border, which is perfectly legal. They are supposed to apply at the border of the first country them come to. You don’t get to keep on going until you get to your preferred country. If that is not the case, we’ll bring them right up to the Canadian border and drop them off. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/123 "2018-10-24T19:36:33Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > This issue appears to be riling up the Republican base. Republicans are making it look like the Democrats are perfectly ok with this caravan just waltzing right across our borders and settling in the US, and the Democrats aren’t doing much to remedy that claim. I think this is probably off-putting to someone in the center or undecided. Honestly, as much as I sympathize with the migrants and would like to accommodate them, except for cases of asylum, I think they should probably be stopped from entering the US. I don’t like it, but that’s our law. This former illegal (became legal thanks to Saint Reagan and then later became a citizen) that had to flee the civil war in El Salvador, is telling you what many are actually saying: sure, if they do not have reasons to ask for asylum they should be stopped. The problem now is that we have an administration that would had been happy to live during the nationalistic administrations of the past, the ones that usually denied entry to “other” people, like the Jews. They are finding more creative ways to deny asylum to many who deserve it before. > [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > And this is from someone who can’t imagine how bad life must be for these people if they are willing to pick up and leave at a moment’s notice for a land that is hostile to them. I’m all for asylum, but I think the Democrats should at least say something. And… as a Democrat now too, I can say that Democrats are saying a lot of what I said already in this and other threads, but the right wing sources of information continue to tell many that they are not saying anything. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/124 "2018-10-24T19:51:53Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > This may be riling up the Republican base but anyone else who buys their line I would ask to remind us: how would this march help the Democrats? How would the Democrats demanding that these people be allowed in help the Democrats, even if they were allowed in? :channeling MAGAbot: They will vote Democrat!!! ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/125 "2018-10-24T20:24:02Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > No, Democrats (and others) have been spending the last few years calling Republicans racists because they’re racists. Democrats have repeatedly attacked “old, white men” which is definitely a racist position to take. Even the old, white men who run the Democrat Party have condemned old, white men for being out of touch. (I’m surprised that Democrats still keep their old, white men around. Maybe Democrat voters will rectify that situation in the next election?) ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/126 "2018-10-24T20:39:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > This former illegal (became legal thanks to Saint Reagan and then later became a citizen) that had to flee the civil war in El Salvador, is telling you what many are actually saying: sure, if they do not have reasons to ask for asylum they should be stopped. The problem now is that we have an administration that would had been happy to live during the nationalistic administrations of the past, the ones that usually denied entry to “other” people, like the Jews. They are finding more creative ways to deny asylum to many who deserve it before. > And… as a Democrat now too, I can say that Democrats are saying a lot of what I said already in this and other threads, but the right wing sources of information continue to tell many that they are not saying anything. It’s certainly a valid concern that conceding anything to Trump in theory may encourage him to do inhumane things in practice. I still think kicking Trump off this horse and taking reins of the narrative could only help the Democrats. Perhaps Democrats are saying what I’ve recommended - just not loudly enough. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/127 "2018-10-24T20:50:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Again: should Democrats _have_ to refute every single accusation or, by their silence, be seen as supporting them? > > And: Republicans lie. All the time, about everything. Why believe them now? > > This may be riling up the Republican base but anyone else who buys their line I would ask to remind us: how would this march help the Democrats? How would the Democrats demanding that these people be allowed in help the Democrats, even if they were allowed in? This isn’t just about responding to accusations. This is a red hot political issue with a countdown that may require a response in the near future. Regarding Republican lying - sure they do and you may not believe them but there is a decent chunk of the population who isn’t as informed as you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/128 "2018-10-24T21:10:16Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > This isn’t just about responding to accusations. This is a red hot political issue with a countdown that may require a response in the near future. The crux of your argument (or concern) is that you think Democrats aren’t responding to this one particular accusation, but you seem to indicate that you think they have responded to others. Basically, what I’m saying is: the Democrats don’t have to jump just because the Republicans want them to. Why not try characterizing it as a show of strength and confidence and exasperation with nonsense instead of as a capitulation to ridiculous accusations? > [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > Regarding Republican lying - sure they do and you may not believe them but there is a decent chunk of the population who isn’t as informed as you. Which is why I gave you two questions to ask next time you encounter such a person: force them to justify their opinion with the facts that they think they know. If they give you answers and don’t think they sound ludicrous when spoken out loud, their lost to logic & reason and prolly even casual conversation. But in all this, you’d rather whine about perceived failings of the Democrats than the actual failings of the Republicans, right? You think it’s more productive to get the Democrats to dance to the Republican’s tune than vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/129 "2018-10-24T21:14:59Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > They are supposed to apply at the border of the first country them come to. You don’t get to keep on going until you get to your preferred country. Cite? > [@](#): > > If that is not the case, we’ll bring them right up to the Canadian border and drop them off. Anyone notice a slight logical flaw here? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/130 "2018-10-24T21:35:17Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Anyone notice a slight logical flaw here? …no? He’s saying, if it _is_ the case, they can stay in Mexico; but if it’s _not_ the case, and they can instead go from Mexico to the US, then we can instead shoo them from the US into Canada. So it maybe looks like an inconsistency on a quick glance, but he’s just saying he’ll act in accord with Case A or Case B: whichever one is in effect. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/131 "2018-10-24T22:39:45Z")
Since 1986, the federal government has spent 263 Billion dollars on border enforcement. > **[The Cost of Immigration Enforcement and Border Security](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/the-cost-of-immigration-enforcement-and-border-security)** > > Since the creation of the Department of Homeland Security in 2003, the federal government has spent an estimated $324 billion on the agencies that carry out immigration enforcement. Imagine if this money was used to help economies in troubled Central American Countries. And the people had jobs, food and housing. Would there be a need for a wall? Is there a wall between Canada and the US? No, because there is no need. These people don’t want to leave their family and friends and home country. But, they are being forced to leave. Of course there would be 40,000 Border patrol agents and 10,000 ICE people out of work. But maybe they could plant flowers. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/132 "2018-10-24T23:55:32Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > The crux of your argument (or concern) is that you think Democrats aren’t responding to this one particular accusation, but you seem to indicate that you think they have responded to others. > > Basically, what I’m saying is: the Democrats don’t have to jump just because the Republicans want them to. Why not try characterizing it as a show of strength and confidence and exasperation with nonsense instead of as a capitulation to ridiculous accusations?Which is why I gave you two questions to ask next time you encounter such a person: force them to justify their opinion with the facts that they think they know. If they give you answers and don’t think they sound ludicrous when spoken out loud, their lost to logic & reason and prolly even casual conversation. > > But in all this, you’d rather whine about perceived failings of the Democrats than the actual failings of the Republicans, right? You think it’s more productive to get the Democrats to dance to the Republican’s tune than vice-versa. I don’t recall whining but I do recall you implying that there is no use in ever responding to Republicans because they lie. Way to roll over and give up. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/133 "2018-10-25T00:04:53Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I don’t recall whining but I do recall you implying that there is no use in ever responding to Republicans because they lie. Way to roll over and give up. :rolleyes: Sure, pal. Except we’ve all seen already how deep and accurate your analysis of things goes: not at all. BTW, did you think we wouldn’t notice that you didn’t actually respond to my post, just to the word “whine”. I’m sure the Democrats appreciate your concern for their plight. :rolleyes: In fact, you’re now wasting time arguing with me over nonsense instead of arguing that Republicans are bad. In fact, I’ve never seen you make a case for Republicans to change, only for Democrats. Who’s side are you on? :dubious: Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/134 "2018-10-25T15:29:15Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > Since 1986, the federal government has spent 263 Billion dollars on border enforcement. > > [https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/the-cost-of-immigration-enforcement-and-border-security](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/the-cost-of-immigration-enforcement-and-border-security) > > Imagine if this money was used to help economies in troubled Central American Countries. And the people had jobs, food and housing. Would there be a need for a wall? Is there a wall between Canada and the US? No, because there is no need. > > These people don’t want to leave their family and friends and home country. But, they are being forced to leave. > > Of course there would be 40,000 Border patrol agents and 10,000 ICE people out of work. But maybe they could plant flowers. Aid has (almost) nothing to do with this. Latin American countries suffer because of endemic corruption. No significant Latin American problem has been solved with aid. Nicaragua is almost in a civil war, that’s the issue. Also, at what point does aid become “meddling with the intenral politics”? The US has also done plenty of that. > [@bump](#): > > You bring up a good point- it would take some wind out of the Republican sails if the Democratic candidates were to say that while they have all the sympathy in the world for immigrants of all stripes, those immigrants must respect the laws of our country and gain access through legal means- asylum, etc… > > By staying quiet, or worse, addressing it as a human rights issue, they play right into Republican hands in terms of confirming what they’re accusing Democrats of doing. > > The real question I suppose is whether or not the undecided voters lean toward a more rule-of-law based handling of illegal immigration, or if they lean toward a more compassion-based handling of illegal immigration. > > If the Democrats would somehow combine the two, they might win some voters over who weren’t already leaning their way. Playing the “asylum” card means that there is the option of turning people away, don’t you agree? What should the US do regarding those who don’t qualify? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/135 "2018-10-25T15:52:11Z")
Soylent Brown? ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/136 "2018-10-25T16:01:39Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Soylent Brown? Don’t _make me_ drag out my bad Charlton Heston impression. :mad: Og knows, if it were found out that one of these migrants could throw a forty-yard pass with pinpoint accuracy, every NFL franchise would be fighting over the privilege of sending limousines below the border equipped with hookers and blow. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/137 "2018-10-25T16:29:34Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Playing the “asylum” card means that there is the option of turning people away, don’t you agree? > What should the US do regarding those who don’t qualify? Turn them away the ones whose legitimate asylum petitions we don’t accept. Just because they because they happened to show up on that side of the Mexican border wanting to live in the US doesn’t obligate us to take them in, any more than me deciding that I want to live in the UK, and I just happen to show up there. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/138 "2018-10-25T20:07:37Z")
[Trump is sending troops!](https://apnews.com/e7ffd2d5764244cdb1d1474bd895a863) Yes, 800+ active duty troops, to deploy on American soil! To protect us from the imminent threat posed by the caravan that is about to reach our border! It’s a crazy deep, dire threat to the United States! We have to defend ourselves NOW! > [@](#): > > Since entering Mexico at its southernmost tip, the group has advanced roughly 95 miles. MY GOD THEY’LL BE HERE ANY MINUTE! HURRY UP, TROOPS! GO! GO! GO! 😛 Donald Trump is an ignorant fear-mongering jackass. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/139 "2018-10-25T20:16:45Z")
I believe NPR said they would be engineers. It is illegal for US troops to serve in a police action on US soil. Perhaps they will build a large fence. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313/140 "2018-10-25T20:17:49Z")
Either that, or he just hopes we are. Keep in mind, these people believe, right down to their toes, that they are the _real_ majority. Or they are the majority of “real” Americans. Patriots. Good news is, they aren’t blaming hippies any more. So, there’s that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fall-2018-central-america-migrant-caravan-to-the-us/823313.md?page=8)