# Fallacies get imprinted young... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 24, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237 "2005-05-24T07:20:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/1 "2005-05-24T07:20:47Z")
[http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/23/girl.found/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/23/girl.found/index.html) > [@](#): > > LAKE WORTH, Florida (CNN) – An 8-year-old girl who police say was raped and left for dead in a landfill asked for a pastor **“so she could thank God”** shortly after her rescue from beneath a pile of stones, her godmother said Monday. I am glad for her rescue, really, I am. But shouldn’t she be thanking Sgt. Mike Hall? You know, the guy that actually found her? Where was God during the act of evil? I know she’s only eight, so I guess I’m putting the blame on her guardian. If you’re going to preach God to children, please allow the children to make him accountable for the bad in life as well. It’s all just so damn hypocritical, this God business. ---
**Author:** ![Pullet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Pullet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pullet)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/2 "2005-05-24T07:31:46Z")
I guess if the horrible violence had killed her, she’d be able to thank God in person for delivering her early from the evils of the world. :rolleyes: P.S. That’s not a rolly eyes for the girl, but for the mindset that omnipotent God should only be mentioned when something good happens. Hypocritical suckiness. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/3 "2005-05-24T07:33:31Z")
So I’m not the only one who’d like to see a losing football team say “Fuck you Jesus!”, eh? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/4 "2005-05-24T07:35:50Z")
You’re certainly not! ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/5 "2005-05-24T07:39:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > So I’m not the only one who’d like to see a losing football team say “Fuck you Jesus!”, eh? Or… 'God hates us. We’re gonna lose. I’m gonna go punch a nun and fuck some midgets." ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/6 "2005-05-24T08:08:59Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Where was God during the act of evil? Where were you? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/7 "2005-05-24T08:09:56Z")
My guess? Wherever it was, it wasn’t being in a state of omnipotence coupled with omniscience. Just a hunch. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/8 "2005-05-24T08:12:30Z")
Hey, a movie was made showing just a fragment of what God went through in time/space/matter history & you anti-religious haters bitched about that. Even if I didn’t believe in God, I wouldn’t bitch about people who take solace in a Deity & who teach that to their children when bad things happen. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/9 "2005-05-24T08:17:19Z")
Hah. They repeated _The Daily Show_ from a week or so ago that had a _This Week In God_ segment that touched on this. Dimly-recalled partial paraphrase: Giacomo won the Kentucky Derby – God really loves a longshot. Bellamy Road finished seventh – God _so_ hates him. Elsewhere, a string of bombings in sub-Saharan Africa. On the other hand, the weather was _really_ nice for them, so it’s kinda hard to tell what God was thinking, there. More on-topic: “Thank-you, God, for letting me survive all those hours crushed under rocks in a bin in a garbage dump. And, while we’re about it, thanks for arranging for me to sleep in the same house with an inhuman monster who served my eight-year-old self up a double-helping of beating and rape before leaving me for dead, you sick motherfucker.” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/10 "2005-05-24T08:18:58Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Hey, a movie was made showing just a fragment of what God went through in time/space/matter history & you anti-religious haters bitched about that. [Yeah, I thought Kevin Smith could’ve done much better.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120655/) ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/11 "2005-05-24T08:29:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Where were you? Let’s see, when did this story break, May 22? I believe was sleeping, preparing for my shift that night. Why do you ask? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/12 "2005-05-24T08:58:21Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Let’s see, when did this story break, May 22? I believe was sleeping, preparing for my shift that night. Why do you ask? Because I blame you for her suffering. You should have been there to protect her. If you’re going to claim the moral highground, then be the moral guardian. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/13 "2005-05-24T09:12:04Z")
Ir-fucking-relevant. If you’re commenting on the basis of this statement: > [@](#): > > …so I guess I’m putting the blame on her guardian. …then you’re insane. The accusation of “blame” in this case is her guardian instilling a hypocritical belief that God only comes around when good things happen. Why isn’t she rasing her fist to the sky asking, “God, why did you allow this man to rape and try to kill me, hmm?” No, you never see that part. What I am NOT doing is blaming her guardian for allowing the rape and attempted murder, but for the God nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/14 "2005-05-24T09:13:10Z")
~blink~ ~blink blink~ **Lib** … you do understand that one can expect different standards from God than from **ParentalAdvisory**? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/15 "2005-05-24T09:24:08Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > ~blink~ > ~blink blink~ > > **Lib** … you do understand that one can expect different standards from God than from **ParentalAdvisory**? Oh sure. But apparently ParentalAdvisory doesn’t. He/she judged God by his/her own petty standards. It apparently never occured to him/her that God might have legitimate moral reasons to allow men to exercise their free will and commit the evil acts that they decide themselves to commit. Or that God might have breathed into man an eternal life separate from his rotting flesh, a life that no man can kill. But then, I don’t know what to make of outrage over a little girl thanking God. It smacks of the Prodigal Son’s brother brooding over someone else’s good fortune. If in the course of a day, the thing that pisses you off more than anything else is that a little girl thanked God, it seems to me that a little house cleaning is in order before taking a broom to the neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/16 "2005-05-24T09:31:49Z")
I’m not as pissed as you think, just annoyed really. > [@](#): > > It apparently never occured to him/her that God might have legitimate moral reasons to allow men to exercise their free will and commit the evil acts that they decide themselves to commit. Well, um, thank goodness for God then! :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > But then, I don’t know what to make of outrage over a little girl thanking God Please. Any comprehension on your part would have clearly pointed out that I’m blaming whomever raised her. > [@ME!](#): > > I know she’s only eight, so I guess I’m putting the blame on her guardian. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/17 "2005-05-24T09:33:11Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Oh sure. But apparently ParentalAdvisory doesn’t. Without putting words in anybody’s mouth, I’d say that **Parental** was pointing out that if there was an all-powerful God, then it would’ve made the little girl get raped and nearly killed before she could be saved. If I got that wrong, please feel free to correct me friend **Advisory**. Is it wrong to ask that a perfect and all-powerful being not cause eight year old girls to be raped and nearly killed before being rescued? > [@Liberal](#): > > It apparently never occured to him/her that God might have legitimate moral reasons to allow men to exercise their free will and commit the evil acts that they decide themselves to commit. I think **Parental** ’s point more had to do with the fact that the girl was thaking God for having her life saved. If, as you say, God allows free will, then God didn’t cause the police to find her, either. So she’s silly to thank God. If, contrary to what you say, God could’ve stopped the rapist as easily as he ‘caused’ the cops to find the girl (in her view), then she’s silly to thank God for getting her out of a jam that God put her into in the first place. > [@Liberal](#): > > Or that God might have breathed into man an eternal life separate from his rotting flesh, a life that no man can kill. Even if we’ve got some immortal soul stuff, having an eight year old girl raped, beaten, and nearly murdered would be kinda harsh. > [@Liberal](#): > > But then, I don’t know what to make of outrage over a little girl thanking God. I don’t see outrage. I see people voicing the fact that there’s a disconnet. If God caused her to be saved, he also caused her to be put in that situation in the first place. In light of that, it’s kinda like having someone dangle you over the edge of a building and then thanking them profusely when they decide not to kill you. > [@Liberal](#): > > It smacks of the Prodigal Son’s brother brooding over someone else’s good fortune. Having not read the Christian bible, I really can’t comment on that parable. But, again, it’s like teams thanking God only when they win, and not blaming their failure on God when they lose. It’s fair weather worship. > [@Liberal](#): > > If in the course of a day, the thing that pisses you off more than anything else is that a little girl thanked God, it seems to me that a little house cleaning is in order before taking a broom to the neighborhood. Again, I think you’re reading the thread wrong, although I may certainly be doing so myself. I read the tone more as a :rolleyes: than a :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/18 "2005-05-24T09:34:48Z")
But why should God get credit for good, and man credit for evil? God, after all, is the agent Who facilitates goodness? If God is the puppeteer that you’re making Him out to be, then are you not writing on His behalf? But if you’re choosing your words freely, then why can’t the bad man have chosen his own evil deed? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/19 "2005-05-24T09:39:01Z")
“We almost won the game until Jesus Christ made me fumble!” ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2005, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237/20 "2005-05-24T09:40:13Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > But why should God get credit for good, and man credit for evil? Eh? I’m not saying that. Either human beings get credit for their actions, in which case the girl should’ve thanked the cops who saved her life and not God… or God is responsible for our actions, in which case she should’ve cursed any deity who was so cruel and capricious as to have an eight year old brutally raped and beaten before being left for dead. > [@Liberal](#): > > If God is the puppeteer that you’re making Him out to be, then are you not writing on His behalf? I don’t believe that there is a God, at least not in the sense that most people use the term. As such I’m only addressing the little girl’s paradigm. If she’s thanking God for being rescued, that means God had a hand in her rescue. What, was he too busy to have a hand in her not getting raped and beaten savagely? > [@Liberal](#): > > But if you’re choosing your words freely, then why can’t the bad man have chosen his own evil deed? I’ll turn that around on you. If bad men can choose their actions, why can’t good cops? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallacies-get-imprinted-young/305237.md?page=2)