# Fallout 3 is annoying **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 24, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588 "2010-03-24T05:29:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/41 "2010-03-27T16:43:46Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Well, you’ve already bought the game. The developers already won that round with you. Second hand purchase actually, that’s why I waited so long before buying it. But I don’t want to leave you with the opinion that I think it sucks, only that I thought it was a sorta first person shooter, which was my mistake. Just going to go with other games for now and go back to fallout probably next winter. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/42 "2010-03-28T03:48:29Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Second hand purchase actually, that’s why I waited so long before buying it. But I don’t want to leave you with the opinion that I think it sucks, only that I thought it was a sorta first person shooter, which was my mistake. > > Just going to go with other games for now and go back to fallout probably next winter. > > Declan Well, it is a first-person shooter, but it introduces weapon proficiency into the mix. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/43 "2010-03-28T16:15:32Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Behemoths aren’t tied to your level - they’re limited, unique encounters. There are only 5 in the game. Oh, interesting. It was the Jury Street one. Looked at a FAQ - this is the only one I missed the first time through. I’m using the Jury Street Metro as a base - went in at low level and it has a bed and a workbench, so it works great for my needs. I’m in that area a lot. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/44 "2010-03-29T13:34:45Z")
I’d have to say that the game’s single biggest weakness as-is is simply the level scaling, combined with dubious enemy design. Not that there aren’t others, of course. What I mean is that the level scaling, though not as bad as in Oblivion, does make levelling up rather pointless. You really don’t get any cool new abilities or options, so at the end of it you do the same stuff. Relative to the enemies, you probably lose ground. The uninspired enemy design is also another unfortunate aspect - it’s something Bethesda has had an issue with forever. I think they’re still stuck in the “early DnD” game mode, where high-level enemies are big and bad and are really just low level enemies with 5x the damage and 10x the hit points. (Elder Scrolls started out as somebody’s pet DnD or some other fantasy game.) Because of this, I have a lot of hope that the new Fallout: New Vegas will resolve a lot fo the issues with it. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/45 "2010-03-29T14:16:55Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > What I mean is that the level scaling, though not as bad as in Oblivion, does make levelling up rather pointless. You really don’t get any cool new abilities or options, so at the end of it you do the same stuff. Relative to the enemies, you probably lose ground. Oh, I really disagree with this. It’s far from perfect, but you still need to balance out leveling up your lockpicking/security abilities to be able to access more parts of the game with your weaponry skills so that you can actually survive when you get there. If you’ve spent any perks on novelty skills (like talking with kids or Lady Killer), it becomes all the more difficult. Not to mention if you’re specializing in a niche talent, like explosives or big guns. And from what I’ve read, all these complaints really lose ground when you’re on Hard difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/46 "2010-03-29T15:33:38Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Oh, I really disagree with this. It’s far from perfect, but you still need to balance out leveling up your lockpicking/security abilities to be able to access more parts of the game with your weaponry skills so that you can actually survive when you get there. If you’ve spent any perks on novelty skills (like talking with kids or Lady Killer), it becomes all the more difficult. Not to mention if you’re specializing in a niche talent, like explosives or big guns. And from what I’ve read, all these complaints really lose ground when you’re on Hard difficulty. But _why_ must you level up the lockpicking and computer at all? Answer? You don’t. Yes, they let you open stuff up, but you never need them. Ever. Period. In fact, all in all they don’t really bring you that much - mostly a little spare ammo. Your entire post is essentially acknowledging there are a bunch of obviously sub-optimal choices, and that taking them (that is, doing the fun stuff) punishes the player pointlessly. The people who want to charge ahead and destroy things with their big skills actually overskill out fo the gate, while those who want to talk and have fun are forced to fight things much too strong. Which is exactly the same damn problem from Oblivion. You can’t pretend it was somehow fixed by making the division even dumber, though less brutal. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/47 "2010-03-29T16:17:19Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > But _why_ must you level up the lockpicking and computer at all? Answer? You don’t. Yes, they let you open stuff up, but you never need them. Ever. Period. I remember computer hacking skills being useful several times for more than just ammo and items. I remember hacking sentry guns to attack enemies, activating robots to fight or not fight me, and opening up access to areas. I didn’t quite understand the little game you had to play to get into the computer, but trial and error got me through pretty quickly. Just like on TV! Plus with ammo being precious for certain weapons, I couldn’t stand leaving locked containers behind without seeing what was in them. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/48 "2010-03-29T17:28:45Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > But _why_ must you level up the lockpicking and computer at all? Answer? You don’t. Shit - you’re right. I hadn’t even considered that possibility - I just assume that people would want to open and access every area/container they see. But they don’t - and they don’t need to. There isn’t anything in the story dependent on your computer/lockpick skill at all! However, the game really doesn’t ramp up with you. Other than more Death Claws and Yau Guis, it’s pretty different than Oblivion/Morrowind in that regard. There are areas that are heavily infested in the harder enemies, and Talon/Enclave soldiers appear a bit more often - but they’re more tied to where you are in the story. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/49 "2010-03-29T17:46:05Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > However, the game really doesn’t ramp up with you. Other than more Death Claws and Yau Guis, it’s pretty different than Oblivion/Morrowind in that regard. There are areas that are heavily infested in the harder enemies, and Talon/Enclave soldiers appear a bit more often - but they’re more tied to where you are in the story. Actually… human enemies’ stats seem to be heavily tied to your level, too, at least for most. You can hit a Yao Gui or Deathclaw at low level, but it’s very rare. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/50 "2010-03-29T20:14:06Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > Wow, did this thread get nerdy in a hurry. Simply put, the game is no longer fun if you blast everything in the dome from long range with a weak weapon and make the biggest bad guys die in that manner. Fair enough. But if I have a high-powered sniper rifle, it’s not a lot of fun if I have to shoot a mo-fo in the face so many times he can get so close that I have to finish him off by breaking the stock over his head. Still…one never gets tired of exploding ghouls heads in slow-mo with a hunting rifle. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/51 "2010-03-29T21:09:17Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > What I mean is that the level scaling, though not as bad as in Oblivion, does make levelling up rather pointless. You really don’t get any cool new abilities or options, so at the end of it you do the same stuff. Relative to the enemies, you probably lose ground. I disagree. Life with Bloody Mess and Grim Reaper’s Sprint is just plain worth living. 🙂 And I love the Mysterious Stranger. A lot of the neat perks are not level-up perks, though. I do wish there were more perks choices at low levels (skill bonuses don’t really attract me, since I am an explorer-type and find a ton of books, as well as invest heavily in Intelligence). ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/52 "2010-03-30T01:10:00Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Shit - you’re right. I hadn’t even considered that possibility - I just assume that people would want to open and access every area/container they see. But they don’t - and they don’t need to. There isn’t anything in the story dependent on your computer/lockpick skill at all! Don’t you need high lockpick to get to Pinkerton? You don’t _need_ to see him, but talking to him is part of one of Moira’s quests and part of the runaway android quest. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/53 "2010-03-30T03:51:47Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Don’t you need high lockpick to get to Pinkerton? You don’t _need_ to see him, but talking to him is part of one of Moira’s quests and part of the runaway android quest. Nope. Don’t it without either lockpick or computer. > [@fluidruid](#): > > I disagree. Life with Bloody Mess and Grim Reaper’s Sprint is just plain worth living. And I love the Mysterious Stranger. A lot of the neat perks are not level-up perks, though. Hey, I didn’t say levelling couldn’t be _fun_. I just didn’t like it when I realized the bag duys were getting a lot more health than I was. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/54 "2010-03-30T03:58:42Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Nope. Don’t it without either lockpick or computer. To expand on this: There’s an unlocked back way into his hideout, accessible by swimming in from where the bow broke off the rest of the ship. ---
**Author:** ![Aghris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecccb3/32.png) [@Aghris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aghris)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/55 "2010-04-07T07:45:05Z")
Finished the game yesterday and I was underwhelmed. Loved the game, but the ending was disappointing to say the least. What, you spend days running around fixing your dad’s project. Then some giant robot paves the way for you, you shoot the general (one head shot and he’s down) and put in a code. You die. You get a slide show. That’s it? Shouldn’t it be a bit more climactic? A few more explosions would’ve been nice. It should’ve been a lot more challenging, that’s for sure. And what now? I can’t continue, but I have loads of stuff to do still. There are a few expansions I want to play, but I haven’t been to Tenpenny Tower yet and DC is still largely unexplored. Do I really have to load up an old save to be able to play this? I hate loose ends, and it would annoy me to play the game knowing that I still have the main quest to resolve. Plus, I want to see the world after I’m the savior of the human race. Also, I hate the choice options at the end. Either I die or she does? Why can’t I send Fawkes in? He stood right beside me. He was able to get the GECK for me, he should be able to do this. Why did I have to die at all? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/56 "2010-04-07T08:56:06Z")
> [@Aghris](#): > > And what now? I can’t continue, but I have loads of stuff to do still. There are a few expansions I want to play, but I haven’t been to Tenpenny Tower yet and DC is still largely unexplored. Do I really have to load up an old save to be able to play this? I hate loose ends, and it would annoy me to play the game knowing that I still have the main quest to resolve. Plus, I want to see the world after I’m the savior of the human race. Get Broken Steel, it extends the story past the original game’s finale (and allows you to keep playing after you’ve beat it too, unless I’m mistaken). You’re not dead, you’re getting better, you feel happy and life goes on in the Wastes, you big hero you. Of course, it’s not as idyllic as you might have thought, water or no water… > [@](#): > > Also, I hate the choice options at the end. > > Either I die or she does? Why can’t I send Fawkes in? He stood right beside me. He was able to get the GECK for me, he should be able to do this. Why did I have to die at all? You and every other player out there :p. But again, Broken Steel addresses that. ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/57 "2010-04-07T09:12:51Z")
Get the DLCs, especially Broken Steel, which picks up two weeks after the lame ending of the game. I’m playing Metro 2033 right now, and it’s awesome in it’s realistic-ness. It’s a FPS based on the bombs falling on Moscow and the survivors live in the metro. Things I like about it; There’s no hit point counter, just a vague heartbeat when you get closer to dying. Medkits are just an adrenaline boost Reusable weapons like arrows and throwing knives can be retrieved from corpses. Guns can jam, and it takes longer (more realistic) to reload. Guards can hear you walking on glass or gravel. Also if a guard sees a corpse on the ground he runs away to sound the alarm. I hope Fallout: New Vegas is a lot like this. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/58 "2010-04-07T13:54:12Z")
> [@Aghris](#): > > Either I die or she does? Why can’t I send Fawkes in? He stood right beside me. He was able to get the GECK for me, he should be able to do this. Why did I have to die at all? Short answer: the devs finished the end first and it didn’t occur to them to make drastic changes when the rest of the story was filled in. ---
**Author:** ![Aghris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecccb3/32.png) [@Aghris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aghris)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/59 "2010-04-07T14:41:02Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Short answer: the devs finished the end first and it didn’t occur to them to make drastic changes when the rest of the story was filled in. In short: sloppy game design. Which is really too bad, as I greatly enjoy it. Are the expansions any better? I have doubts about Mothership Zeta and Ancorage. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588/60 "2010-04-07T15:09:03Z")
[QUOTE=Aghris] In short: sloppy game design. Which is really too bad, as I greatly enjoy it. Are the expansions any better? I have doubts about Mothership Zeta and Ancorage. [/QUOTE] Yeah, they are, especially Broken Steel, Point Lookout and The Pitt. Anchorage was also interesting…plus you get some goodies at the end which will be really helpful (I’d actually do this one first). I wasn’t too keen on Mothership Zeta, to be honest, and never even finished it (for one thing, by the time it came out my character was maxed out and pretty much unbeatable). I’d also encourage you to look over some of the myriad mods out there, some of which add quite a bit to the game, including mini-adventures, tweaks to the game play, better repair, and, of course, a vault of your own. 😉 (Oh…and you can buy them all together now, and on DvD instead of having to download them, so no point in just buying a couple of them) -XT [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-3-is-annoying/533588.md?page=4)