# Fallout Episode 4: The Ghouls **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, amazon-prime\ **Created:** [April 11, 2024, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139 "2024-04-11T08:08:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2024, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/1 "2024-04-11T08:08:10Z")
Spoiler policy: Anything in this episode and any previous episodes are open spoilers. Please do not discuss what happens in later episodes in this thread. Rather, go to the thread for that episode and discuss it there. Assume that everyone who is reading this thread has only seen up until the episode in the title. General discussion about the whole series after you’ve watched all the episodes can go in the episode 8 thread. [Episode 1: The End](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-1-the-end) [Episode 2: The Target](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-2-the-target) [Episode 3: The Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-3-the-head/) [Episode 4: The Ghouls](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls) [Episode 5: The Past](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-5-the-past) [Episode 6: The Trap](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-6-the-trap) [Episode 7: The Radio](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-7-the-radio) [Episode 8: The Beginning](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/) ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/2 "2024-04-14T00:24:53Z")
Just finished episode 4 and really enjoying it. Walter Goggins is fantastic. One question though - in the games, did non feral ghouls need drugs to keep from turning? I don’t recall that, but it’s been a few years since I played the games and I haven’t played all of them. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/3 "2024-04-14T00:54:21Z")
I don’t recall that being a thing either. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/4 "2024-04-14T01:07:57Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > in the games, did non feral ghouls need drugs to keep from turning? Not to my recollection. In the games, there were feral ghouls and there were sapient ghouls. The latter turning feral was not unheard of, but seemingly rare. No one seemed to know why it happened; it doesn’t seem to be inevitable in the games. Also, no one knows how to prevent it from happening, so no anti-feral inhalers. Perhaps it’s the show’s contribution to the canon, or maybe it’ll get handwaved. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/5 "2024-04-14T04:20:44Z")
My memory was the difference between ghouls was how much radiation they took but I don’t remember any drug making a difference. However I never played 4 to the end or 76 at all. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/6 "2024-04-14T04:25:17Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > Just finished episode 4 and really enjoying it. Walter Goggins is fantastic. One question though - in the games, did non feral ghouls need drugs to keep from turning? I don’t recall that, but it’s been a few years since I played the games and I haven’t played all of them. I don’t think it’s ever explained in the games why some ghouls are feral and others are not. And, boy, it’s difficult trying to remember what we’ve seen in this and previous episodes without accidentally violating the rules by bringing something up that happens after episode 4. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/7 "2024-04-14T07:24:43Z")
My assorted thoughts, typed as I watch; - Roger’s halfway feral and he knows it. We don’t usually get to see ghouls going feral. It must be terrible to know you’re changing into something no longer human and not be able to do anything about it. Cooper did him a mercy by shooting him. - The drugs Cooper has been taking have been to prevent ferality from setting in. That’s a new bit of lore. It’s never been established before whether all ghouls eventually go feral or if it just depends on the person - this revelation pushes it towards the former. - How did the “great plague” get into Vault 33 if the main doors had never been opened before? Either someone from the outside must’ve gotten in to one of the other vaults before the raiders, or someone is covering something up. I bet it has to do with why Lucy’s dad thought he recognized Moldaver. - Oh, Norm is definitely gonna go full fascist and take over the Vault. - The path Lucy and Cooper have been taking doesn’t make much sense. She started at the Santa Monica pier, she cut off the doctor’s head within visual range of the LAX terminal, the encounter with the gulper was on Hollywood Blvd, Roger’s house was in west LA, and now they’re back on Santa Monica Blvd. They’re basically going around in circles. But then again, this is a sidequest. Perhaps they should just be thankful Preston Garvey hasn’t heard of another settlement that needs their help. - Cooper cutting off Lucy’s finger after she bit his off is a literal application of the Golden Rule. - It’s gotta be disappointing having fresh produce for dinner but nothing to go with it but a 220-year-old can of Cram. - Stephanie is going through all five phases of grief at once while talking to Chet. - Even having your water break is subject to Bloody Mess, apparently. - The inside of the Super Duper Mart looks a lot like some old photos I’ve seen of an independently owned grocery/department store that existed here in Olympia in the '60s, before supermarkets and shopping malls became all the rage and our big retailers moved out of downtown and into the suburbs. Very neat. - Laser-stitching a putrified finger onto Lucy’s stump without any medication doesn’t seem like it would work, but such are the wonders of pre-war medicine. Then again, General Atomics probably didn’t care if your new finger rotted off a week later as long as your check cleared, and this particular Mr. Handy isn’t worried about long-term success anyway. - “Jello-cake” is definitely something that would’ve existed in one of those godawful '50s cookbooks written by a home economist at Kraft trying to figure out how to incorporate as many of their products as possible into one recipe. - _Ooooooooooooh_ Vault 32 had a dark secret. - “Norm! …Hi.” “Feel like getting out of the house?” “_Yes_”. This show is great with snappy dialogue. - Exploring abandoned vaults is easily one of the creepiest parts of any Fallout game. There are rarely any difficult monster fights, but the tension comes from the environment and the suspense of finding out what happened to that vault’s inhabitants to make it wind up abandoned, and finding out usually leaves you feeling disturbed and ill-at-ease like you’ve just read a book with a powerful but very unhappy ending. This scene definitely captures that feeling, especially when Norm figures out what some other posters already guessed at - Vault 32 has been dead for awhile now, and the authorities didn’t want anyone to know. - _Vault 32 was a human mouse utopia._ Holy shit, that’s terrifying. Vault-Tec must’ve provided them with a limitless supply of food and equipment so that they spent their lives completely idle just consuming and breeding until there were too many people in not enough space and society broke down. (If Fallout has one recurring theme aside from “War never changes”, it’s “Corporations are evil”.) - “Martha. My name’s Martha.” That’s even MORE terrifying. This episode really took a turn for the bizarre. The fact that this human chop-shop is apparently run by Beavis & Butt-Head is just the right level of black comedy. - Back in episode 2, the box of Jim’s Limbs was supposed to be under the defibrillators. Here, Lucy uses a defibrillator to take out the Mr. Handy. Does that count as Chekov’s Defibrillator? - Nice use of the Halloween decorations, a la their presence everywhere in Fallout 4 as a reminder that the war happened in late October. - These ferals are a lot tougher fighters than the ones in the games. - Shoulda grabbed that Rad-Away when you had a chance, Lucy. You definitely took on some rads from all that swimming and drinking wasteland water. - _The raiders had Norm’s mom’s Pip-Boy._ The same mom who supposedly died in “the Great Plague”. Mysterious! - “Golden rule, motherfucker.” The wasteland’s definitely made its mark on Lucy. - OK, so not all the drugs Cooper has been taking have been medical. I’m surprised they showed him snorting what looked like cocaine - the Fallout universe has always used fictional drugs instead of real ones. (Well, Fallout 3 was going to have morphine, but it was changed to “Med-X” to appease Australian censors). Sitting down to watch his old movie is a great way to end an episode as dark as this one has been. ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/8 "2024-04-14T14:36:57Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > The latter turning feral was not unheard of, but seemingly rare. When did this happen/which game? > [@Smapti](#): > > Exploring abandoned vaults is easily one of the creepiest parts of any Fallout game. Exploring vaults was always one of my favorite things in the games, and they captured the feeling perfectly here. Creepy and disturbing and it just gets worse as you find clues as to what went on. > [@Smapti](#): > > _Vault 32 was a human mouse utopia._ Holy shit, that’s terrifying. Vault-Tec must’ve provided them with a limitless supply of food and equipment so that they spent their lives completely idle just consuming and breeding until there were too many people in not enough space and society broke down. I must have missed something here, I thought it was unexplained. If there were too many people, why wouldn’t they have just tried to push some of the young people out to the other vaults and claim it’s for genetic diversity reasons? ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/9 "2024-04-14T15:59:43Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > When did this happen/which game? Fallout 4 _Nuka World_ DLC. A group of performers were trapped in the Kiddie Kingdom area of rhe Nuka-World theme park when the bombs fell. They were heavily exposed to the fallout and many died in short order, but a surprisingly large number of the survived and mutated into sentient ghouls. The decades passed and most of the ghouls in this group became feral, with the exception of one (who is the feature antagonist for this part of the DLC ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/10 "2024-04-14T16:20:38Z")
Thank you. I definitely see myself jumping back into the Fallout games after I finish this series, and I’ve never played 1 or 2 before so might be a good time for it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/11 "2024-04-14T16:25:54Z")
They are a completely different kind of game than 3/4 but definitely worth while. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/12 "2024-04-14T21:11:32Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > I must have missed something here, I thought it was unexplained. When Norm and Chet found the corpse that had shoved a fork into the toaster while watching TV, the TV was playing a documentary about mouse utopias. That seems to pretty heavily imply that’s what’s going on in Vault 32. > [@liirogue](#): > > If they were too many people, why wouldn’t they have just tried to push some of the young people out to the other vaults and claim it’s for genetic diversity reasons? Isn’t that exactly what they were doing? Trading excess “breeders” to Vault 33 in exchange for seed and parts? ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2024, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/13 "2024-04-14T21:36:59Z")
I somehow completely missed that part of the episode and had to go back and find it. Thank you for explaining that ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/14 "2024-04-16T12:15:19Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I bet it has to do with why Lucy’s dad thought he recognized Moldaver. Also, I noticed in ep 1 that just before she took Lucy’s dad away, Moldaver said to Lucy “you look just like your mother”. And when Lucy told the ghoul her full name in this ep, he said “MacLean, huh?” So there’s some history between the mom, possibly the dad and the surface dwellers, it appears. I noticed a fun little Simpsons-related Easter egg in this ep-- at the very end when the Ghoul plugged the video cassette of his old show into the TV / Video player, it’s brand name was ‘Radiation King’. That’s got to be one of the writers giving a shout-out to an old Simpsons ep flashback where a young Homer Simpson was watching an aged TV with that same brand name, the cathode ray tube light of which was casting a Homer shadow that had burned to the back wall. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/15 "2024-04-16T12:20:07Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I noticed a fun little Simpsons-related Easter egg in this ep-- at the very end when the Ghoul plugged the video cassette of his old show into the TV / Video player, it’s brand name was ‘Radiation King’. That’s got to be one of the writers giving a shout-out to an old Simpsons ep flashback where a young Homer Simpson was watching an aged TV with that same brand name, the cathode ray tube light of which was casting a Homer shadow that had burned to the back wall. I’m sure it originally was, but “Radiation King” has been part of Fallout since the first game. [![](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/2/22/Fo1_Intro_Radiation_King_OR.png) ](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/2/22/Fo1_Intro_Radiation_King_OR.png) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2024, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/16 "2024-04-16T12:25:28Z")
OK, yeah, it appears it is a Simpsons ref, but it goes all the way back to the start of the games, as you say. I hadn’t noticed the name gag in the couple Fallout games I’ve played. > The Radiation King is one of several Simpson references in the _Fallout_ series. The first appearance in the _Fallout_ intro was a deliberate inclusion by [Leonard Boyarsky](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Leonard_Boyarsky), hidden there to make [Tim Cain](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Tim_Cain) laugh. > **[Radiation King](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Radiation_King)** > > Radiation King was a pre-War company that manufactured several popular lines of radio and television sets. Radiation King was contracted by Vault-Tec Corporation to provide television sets and other appliances for Vaults. Radiation King Georgetown... ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2024, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/17 "2024-04-17T04:03:40Z")
I thought Norm would try to use Vault 32 as a source for a replacement water chip but that never came up. This episode nearly put my wife off the show for good. Fortunately the next episode lacked any mutually-assured de-fingerings, feral ghoul meat carving or torrents of baby water. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-4-the-ghouls/1000139/18 "2024-04-18T20:29:56Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > _Vault 32 was a human mouse utopia._ Holy shit, that’s terrifying. Vault-Tec must’ve provided them with a limitless supply of food and equipment so that they spent their lives completely idle just consuming and breeding until there were too many people in not enough space and society broke down. I think that was a reference to Universe 25. But why would the participants of the experiment have access to materials about said experiment?