# Fallout Episode 8: The Beginning **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, amazon-prime\ **Created:** [April 11, 2024, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143 "2024-04-11T08:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/61 "2024-04-18T22:56:25Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The Ghoul may not be Hitler-level evil but he’s not good, either. There are no “good guys” in Fallout, really. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/62 "2024-04-18T22:58:13Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > According to her own description of her motives, the entire reason she’s working at Vault-Tec is to make sure that her kid gets in a “good” vault, and she’s so certain about the inevitability of the war that she’s willing to trigger it herself to make certain that she’s well-positioned to survive it. I don’t see her sharing custody in that situation. Something to consider… SHE might be on the outs with Vaultec because of Coop. Betty isn’t the boss–we see her clearly defer to a shadowy-figure in the wings of the big meeting. Coop might have caused some headaches for Vaultec and she might be on thin ice. She could not have been in the loop on “bomb day.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/63 "2024-04-18T23:00:43Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > (Actually, my theory is that everyone was fast travelling but that part didn’t get onto the screens. Everything is where it’s supposed to be, they just didn’t show the weeks of walking, just like the game.) Birdie says it was a three-day walk from Shady Sands to Filly, which as I mentioned in a previous thread feels like too long, but I think it’s pretty safely established that everything we’ve seen takes place in the vicinity of west and central LA. Vault 33 is under the Santa Monica Pier, Moldaver’s HQ is the Griffith Observatory, the lake with the gulper is just to the south of Griffith Park near Hollywood Blvd, Filly itself is somewhere near LAX, and so forth. It’s really a pretty small area. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/64 "2024-04-18T23:04:44Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > (Actually, my theory is that everyone was fast travelling but that part didn’t get onto the screens. Everything is where it’s supposed to be, they just didn’t show the weeks of walking, just like the game.) All joking aside… up until the Griffith Observatory was shown as the new HQ of the NCR remnant… I just decided they had actually been traveling across the state…and we just weren’t seeing it. Especially after Lucy said in…episode 6, maybe? That she had been out of the Vault for two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2024, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/65 "2024-04-18T23:18:53Z")
But that jaunt to Shady Sands…which, according to internet analysis, would be in Inyo County, not far from the Mojave… that had to be fast travelled. The geography continuity is almost as bad as the timeline continuity. Writers hate pre-existing continuity because it’s so easy to get wrong (and I suspect a lot of them hate the impediment to their creativity). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/66 "2024-04-19T01:51:32Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We don’t know that Vault-Tec was actually the folks who triggered the nukes - there were a number of parties who could have done that. That’s why I said “willing” to start the apocalypse. Plus, all the shit Vault-Tec was doing in their vaults that she absolutely knew about, and was okay with. And what she just heard the other CEOs were planning to do in their vaults - which was also her idea. She is _unfathomably_ evil. > [@Broomstick](#): > > It’s not like Cooper Howard was the purest of souls, either. Sure, on a certain level he was a nice guy, but that doesn’t mean he was a saint. He sure gets a lot darker and more amoral over the centuries. Pre-war Coop seems to be a perfectly decent person. Everything we see about him before the bombs drop suggest that he’s a man with pretty strong moral convictions, to the extent that he apparently was willing to torpedo his career rather than continue being a hype-man for Vault-Tec. And we know he divorces his wife, almost certainly because of what he overheard in that meeting. Or she divorces him, for trying to go public with it. Either way, I don’t see how a divorce between a person with a standard moral compass, and a literal monster, is going to be at all amicable. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/67 "2024-04-19T06:35:37Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Either way, I don’t see how a divorce between a person with a standard moral compass, and a literal monster, is going to be at all amicable It can be if they both love their daughter. Like all the best monsters, Barb doesn’t believe she’s a monster. A decent and reasonable person, and a monster who _thinks_ she’s a decent and reasonable person, can separate amicably if they have a good reason to. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/68 "2024-04-19T08:12:37Z")
Yes, evil people don’t have to be cackling, insane evil people. Barb is a rational adult. There is a logic to her decisions even if we don’t agree with her and where she goes morally. She’s not evil in her mind, she genuinely thinks she’s doing the right thing. She also genuinely cares for both her daughter _and_ her husband. If she decided the best thing for her daughter was to keep the divorce amicable she would do exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/69 "2024-04-19T08:34:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Barb is a rational adult. There is a logic to her decisions even if we don’t agree with her and where she goes morally. She’s not evil in her mind, she genuinely thinks she’s doing the right thing. Barb may very well _believe_ she is _“doing the right thing”_ but working toward the annihilation of most humans is not rational. I think most people would say that is insane and not a rational adult. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/70 "2024-04-19T08:43:01Z")
Only people living in our morality. She is not the first person to think the complete elimination of an opposing group(s) is the best way to secure a future for her family, and a surprising number of people approve of that viewpoint. There are people who think inclusion, getting along with people different from you, and trying to make peace with our enemies so all can live in this world is irrational and stupid. They think _we_ are evil. While they are not the majority in the US I can point to places where such thoughts are the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/71 "2024-04-19T08:58:51Z")
I am not seeing how anyone who wants to nuke the world is rational. They may think they are, but they are not. Barb is insane. Remember, she not only advocates for wiping out humanity but she sells it to the others that they can each do anything they want. The others at the table proceed to suggest all sorts of mad and awful notions. Barb is fine with it all. She’s nuts (crazy). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/72 "2024-04-19T09:02:11Z")
In OUR world radiation kills you dead and a full out global nuclear war could wipe us all out. In Fallout’s world it’s not nearly as deadly, might even make you immortal (but not necessarily sane), and a full global nuclear war doesn’t have the same consequences as in our universe. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/73 "2024-04-19T12:09:15Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not seeing how anyone who wants to nuke the world is rational. They may think they are, but they are not. Self-interest is always rational. It may not be moral, but it’s rational. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/74 "2024-04-19T12:12:13Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Self-interest is always rational. It may not be moral, but it’s rational. The guy who wants to murder your family because he thinks they are evil is rational? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/75 "2024-04-19T12:21:41Z")
The “thinking they are evil” part is insane. Murdering them is taking rational action to achieve an irrational goal. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/76 "2024-04-19T12:42:18Z")
I do not know the point you are trying to make. Barb wants to murder almost all the world. She offers a proposal that allows those at the table to save their faction in vaults and do whatever they want. And they offer up some mad and awful schemes. And Barb is ok with it. How can you defend Barb as “rational?” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/77 "2024-04-19T13:11:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > How can you defend Barb as “rational?” Because she and the people she cares about benefit from her actions. Not caring about anyone else in the world is evil, but it’s not irrational. I’m not defending her morality, I’m defending her rationality. People like her can’t hide behind an insanity defense - they know exactly what they’re doing, and why. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/78 "2024-04-19T13:14:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Because she and the people she cares about benefit from her actions. Not caring about anyone else in the world is evil, but it’s not irrational. It’s irrational because her family is not better off. Her family can not benefit from such a scheme. Not to mention the price she will pay for that is killing billions of people. That can not be rational. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/79 "2024-04-19T13:18:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It’s irrational because her family is not better off. Her family can not benefit from such a scheme. If she succeeds in replacing the world with a capitalist utopia with her on top, then yes, she and her family will benefit. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > . Not to mention the price she will pay for that is killing billions of people. She’s not the one paying the price. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/80 "2024-04-19T13:47:42Z")
This show is a perfect example of why I miss 22 episode seasons. The ending of Fallout Season 1 was like the end of a first act. If they were now on break for a month or 6 weeks, that would have been a really effective act-break. I heard online that Fallout Season 1 was filmed 18 months ago. If Season 2 takes 18 months to hit, I just don’t get why 8 episodes are supposed to tie us over that long. I"m picturing if LOST had stopped after 8-10 episodes and went away 18 months each time. That would have sucked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143.md?page=5)