# Fallout Episode 8: The Beginning **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, amazon-prime\ **Created:** [April 11, 2024, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143 "2024-04-11T08:13:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/81 "2024-04-19T15:17:52Z")
Wait Shady Sands was not the Nuked during the war. It was an attempt to rebuild after and was working and was then destroyed. Maybe I am misunderstanding some of the discussion above but it sounds like that is what some people are saying. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/82 "2024-04-19T15:59:30Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It can be if they both love their daughter. If Coop loves his daughter, he needs to do everything in his power to keep her away from her mother. She’s absolutely not safe with that woman. If nothing else, he needs to make sure his daughter doesn’t grow up to be a monster like her mother. But also, I don’t buy that Barb loves her daughter. Or Coop. Or is, fundamentally, capable of caring for other humans beyond what she can use them for. She is, I think, the same as Hank - “I loved your mother. Until she left.” At which point he dropped a nuke on her. Barb’s fundamentally the same: she “loves” her daughter while her daughter is at the age where her parents are her whole world. How does she react when her daughter is old enough to question her? To rebel against her? At what point does Barb decide, “As much as I love my daughter, she’s _getting in the way_ and needs to be removed”? For a person as utterly morally depraved as Barb, that point comes sooner rather than later. A lot of evil is just people being stupid, or selfish, or having poor emotional regulation. That’s not Barb. She’s cold-bloodedly setting plans into motion that will lead to the incineration of 6+ billion people, and actively consigning generations of survivors to lifetimes as test subjects to horrific scientific experimentation. And not just people in some “out-group” where she can convince herself that the she’s murdering are not really human. She’s doing this to her own friends and family - everyone she knows that doesn’t have access to one of the “good” vaults. That’s not “banality of evil,” that’s a complete sociopathic disinterest in the suffering of other humans. That’s the sort of moral dysfunction that does not stop at the front door of the family home. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/83 "2024-04-19T16:11:43Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Wait Shady Sands was not the Nuked during the war. It was an attempt to rebuild after and was working and was then destroyed. Maybe I am misunderstanding some of the discussion above but it sounds like that is what some people are saying. People are confused because they believed the show claimed shady sands was nuked in 2277 and Shady Sands is one of the main locales in Fallout: New Vegas which takes place in 2281. The timeline on the classroom in vault 4 can be interpreted in a different way though as it shows “the fall of shady sands” and the nuke being dropped on it as two separate events. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/84 "2024-04-19T16:26:08Z")
Nitpick: Shady Sands isn’t a location in _Fallout: New Vegas_, but the New California Republic, whose capital was Shady Sands, was a major faction in the game. If Shady Sands had been nuked prior to New Vegas, it would be unlikely the the NCR would be a major faction in New Vegas. Word of God is that Shady Sands was nuked shortly after the events of F:NV, and the 2277 date was a production mistake. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/85 "2024-04-19T16:28:04Z")
Todd Howard, Bethesda’s _Fallout_ boss, has stated that Fallout New Vegas remains canonical, implying that Shady Sands was not nuked in 2277. > **[Fallout Official Timeline Confirmed: How the Show Fits In With the Games - IGN](https://www.ign.com/articles/fallout-official-timeline-confirmed-how-the-show-fits-in-with-the-games)** > > The Fallout show is officially canon and Todd Howard and Jonathan Nolan explain how the show fits into the greater timeline set down by the games. > “All I can say is we’re threading it tighter there, but **the bombs fall just after the events of New Vegas.** ” [emphasis added] ETA: As @Miller said Editing further to add: this whole discussion makes me really curious to see which Fallout: New Vegas ending will be treated as canonical (i.e., the backstory for this part of the show). ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/86 "2024-04-19T21:10:17Z")
I absolutely get the confusion but the Todd Howard explanation makes sense and I’ll just accept it. “The Fall of Shady Sands” is now obviously a “in hindsight” designation. I’m willing to bet it would be the year when the NCR congress officially voted to head east to the Mojave. NCR survivors have no idea who nuked them and I believe another “word of god” pronuncement was that the Shady Sands nuke happened shortly after the end of FO: NV. They might have concluded that the bombs were dropped BECAUSE of the NCR excursion into the Mojave. I also could be wrong but I think in game some NCR tourists mention that the New Vegas war is becoming unpopular back home. So that initial decision is when things started to go downhill in their eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/87 "2024-04-19T21:17:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It’s irrational because her family is not better off. Her family can not benefit from such a scheme. Not to mention the price she will pay for that is killing billions of people. That can not be rational. She believes that her family will benefit. She’s wrong, but acting on a sincerely held belief can lead to rational actions for an immoral, evil, or impossible goal. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/88 "2024-04-19T22:49:46Z")
Man, what a fun show! The fantastic production design and great acting more than compensate for any plot holes. Like most video games, the ride is more important than the story. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/89 "2024-04-19T23:25:31Z")
Having played all 5 main games, I don’t care if the timeline is fudged a bit or is a bit tight. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2024, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/90 "2024-04-19T23:40:39Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Editing further to add: this whole discussion makes me really curious to see which Fallout: New Vegas ending will be treated as canonical (i.e., the backstory for this part of the show). My guess would be the Mr. House ending - they’ve already introduced him as a character, and his ending is the only one in which he survives. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/91 "2024-04-20T00:42:40Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > My guess would be the Mr. House ending - they’ve already introduced him as a character, and his ending is the only one in which he survives. They only introduced him in a flashback, no reason he can’t die. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/92 "2024-04-20T01:24:37Z")
Well, it probably won’t be the NCR ending if they’ve collapsed, and if the Legion won then they cull the entire city, which leaves the Yes Man ending, and while I’m sure Dave Foley would be more than willing to reprise the role it’s gonna require a lot of explanation. Having House still be in control seems like the best way to reintroduce Vegas. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/93 "2024-04-20T01:34:29Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > They only introduced him in a flashback, no reason he can’t die. Chekhov’s Gunman: if he’s teased, he should have a role later. > **[Chekhov's Gunman - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChekhovsGunman)** > > Any character who is innocuously and unimportantly introduced to the viewer, but who later proves to be important by the end of the story. In other words, they're a human Chekhov's Gun. (Or a non-human animal, or an extraterrestrial, or a … ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/94 "2024-04-20T01:42:41Z")
The Legion ending to New Vegas has them keeping the city, and using it to pacify the Mojave: > [@](#): > > [Caesar](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Caesar) entered [The Strip](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas_Strip) as though it was his Triumph. The Legion pushed the [NCR](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_California_Republic) out of [New Vegas](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/New_Vegas) entirely, driving them back to the [Mojave Outpost](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Mojave_Outpost). The Legion occupied all major locations, enslaving much of the population and peacefully lording over the rest. Under the Legion’s banner, civilization - unforgiving as it was - finally came to the [Mojave Wasteland](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Mojave_Wasteland). It’s still there in that ending, and still a major power center in the region, although probably none of the NPC you meet there in the game survived the Legion take-over. Word of God (well, Word of Todd, at any rate) is that the NCR collapsed shortly after the events of F:NV, so that ending is still potentially on the table, although having the Strip and Hoover Dam would have drastically lessened the impact of losing Shady Sands, so that’s probably out for that reason. They don’t really have to do much explaining to justify the Yes Man ending - having Vegas patrolled by robots that look like video poker machines kind sells itself, and could be justified with a line or two of dialogue - “Mr. House made us to run New Vegs in the unfortunate event of his passing, which unfortunately came to pass X years ago.” That said, the House ending seems most likely, because why else would Hank go to New Vegas if Mr. House isn’t in charge? It seems really likely that he’s going there because he knows there’s someone at least partially sympathetic to Vault-Tec’s plans, and that’s not going to be the NCR or Caesar’s Legion. Also, he’s too good a character not to put into the show if they have an excuse to use him. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/95 "2024-04-20T12:38:40Z")
Just watched this ep last night. What a great show. Just a really fun ride. A most excellent adaptation of the FO video game universe. I didn’t mind the reveal that corporations caused the apocalypse. My take is that conditions already existed that had brought the world to the brink of nuclear war already, and the corporations just manipulated events to push it over the brink. BTW, I caught some irony that a show about greedy, manipulative corporations becoming so powerful that they take on roles typically handled by the government is produced by…Amazon. > [@msmith537](#): > > I liked how Lucy mentioned how she threw acid in an innocent man’s face, making a point of how even someone who is intentionally good natured as Lucy can be driven to do crazy things by the Wasteland. It may not have been an intentional reference, but when Lucy said that, I thought of O’Brien in ‘1984’ asking Winston Smith if he was willing to do whatever it takes, even throw acid in an innocent’s face, if it furthered the goals of the resistance. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/96 "2024-04-20T22:36:09Z")
> [@solost](#): > > > [@msmith537](#): > > > > I liked how Lucy mentioned how she threw acid in an innocent man’s face, making a point of how even someone who is intentionally good natured as Lucy can be driven to do crazy things by the Wasteland. > > It may not have been an intentional reference, but when Lucy said that, I thought of O’Brien in ‘1984’ asking Winston Smith if he was willing to do whatever it takes, even throw acid in an innocent’s face, if it furthered the goals of the resistance. It’s possible. Although Lucy wasn’t acting out of any sort of ideological motivation. She assumed the vaulters were doing horrible experiments and legitimately thought she was defending herself, given that nearly everyone she met had tried to either kill her or do horrible experiments on her. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/97 "2024-04-20T22:47:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > This show is a perfect example of why I miss 22 episode seasons. The ending of Fallout Season 1 was like the end of a first act. If they were now on break for a month or 6 weeks, that would have been a really effective act-break. > > I heard online that Fallout Season 1 was filmed 18 months ago. If Season 2 takes 18 months to hit, I just don’t get why 8 episodes are supposed to tie us over that long. > > I"m picturing if LOST had stopped after 8-10 episodes and went away 18 months each time. That would have sucked. I was going to start another thread discussing the same topic. But I think the old standard of 20+ episodes a season every year is more or less a thing of the past. Especially now streaming services and shows like Game of Thrones setting the standard for cinematic quality (and big cinematic budget) epic television. Now you get 8-10 episodes you can binge watch in a day or so after which you have to wait 2+ years for the next season (if there even is one). And the binge-watching kind of ruins the whole cultural zeitgeist thing IMHO (with a few exceptions like Squid Game). You just miss out on the entire audience picking apart each episode for a week after experiencing the Red Wedding or the opening of the hatch together. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/98 "2024-04-20T22:59:41Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > was going to start another thread discussing the same topic. But I think the old standard of 20+ episodes a season every year is more or less a thing of the past. Especially now streaming services and shows like Game of Thrones setting the standard for cinematic quality (and big cinematic budget) epic television. Another benefit is fewer or no “filler episodes” that don’t really contribute to the story arc. Remember the hate for “Scar” and “The Woman King” in the 2000s Battlestar Galactica? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/99 "2024-04-20T23:09:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Another benefit is fewer or no “filler episodes” Yeah, this. Even the more “premium” shows like the Marvel stuff on Netflix had at least one or two filler episodes just to bump their episode count to 13. I don’t mind 8-10 episode seasons, I definitely mind the 2 year wait for a new season though. This started during the pandemic, which was understandable, and after that we got a strike. What is going on now that it takes 2-3 years to do what used to be done in 1? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143/100 "2024-04-20T23:17:09Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > What is going on now that it takes 2-3 years to do what used to be done in 1? My WAG - higher budgets, better produciton values, and more location shooting. Disney shoots its Star Wars TV shows almost entirely on green screen - Amazon went to Namibia to film desert scenes for Fallout. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallout-episode-8-the-beginning/1000143.md?page=6)