# Fallujah children's 'genetic damage' **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784 "2010-07-23T23:27:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/161 "2010-08-04T15:52:17Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Zanthor, I have two questions for you. > > I am probably more on your side than most of the posters here. I actually don’t think we should be in the ME for the reasons the Bushes told us we should be. In fact I was against the invasion in the first place. I think Obama is continuing the war in Afghanistan because not to do so would be political suicide. However your claims are way over-blown - we are not “annihilating” the populace at large. And your add ons like “and who knows what else” are bullshit fabrications to strengthen your portrayal of the “atrocities”. Agent orange was a defoliant not aimed at people nor intended to harm them. The Crusade issue is completely irrelevant as we weren’t a nation yet. > > BUT the ME wars have hurt non-combat innocent people. And that is sad. I feel bad about that because it is not fair to them. I’m sure there have been a few birth deformations but nowhere near the “obliteration” you speak of. Am I unhappy with the actions of some of the things that America specifically has done in the ME wars? Yes. Am I responsible? No. Do I (personally) feel guilty? No. I did my duty and voted… and not for Bush. Now these matters are out of my hands. > > So here are my questions (and feel free to answer it in any format you chose, as long as you answer them directly and specifically); > > 1. What would you have me personally do to correct this situation? > 2. What have you done personally do to correct this situation? yet we are already at war with Pakistan, we bomb them daily, cruise missiles, Executions on suspected insurgents, not even proved guilty, don’t matter at all how many innocent civilians have to die. We are already at war with Iran, we trade sanction them, try to starve them, support any organisation we think will destabilise their Govt, in their country. because it suits us to, we like meddling. soon we will have to go assist as a peacekeeping force, just to lend a hand it will read, and will fool the public for sure, as always. But do I believe that US will attack Iran? Absolutely. But it will all be done with due casus belli.. Look forward to a lot of “Unnamed intelligence sources believe…” “President says the world will no longer tolerate…” “… believed to have been carried out by Agents of Revolutionary guard” The western world is process driven, and as long as the perception of the majority is that you’re acting in good faith, you’re good to go. So, basically, what this this to do with genetically deforming foreign countries children? you tell me. its just more war/s we want to wage, with God only knows what WMD.. sorry, cannot be more specific for you. only thing i can suggest is meditation, collective consciousness, and all that I sat on the front lies as the Police moved in, batons flailing, laying waste to the protesters of the Vietnam slaughter, did it change anything? i don’t know for sure. but i at least thought i was doing what little i could. up to you ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/162 "2010-08-04T16:20:02Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > > [@Zanthor](#): > > > > don’t know how to use the separate quote thingy, but oh well, > > \*Basically **we have been invading the ME for centuries, want to start with the Crusades? we have not stopped messing with them ever since,** worldwide, Muslims against Christians, > > It does not make it right, sorry to disappoint you > > The Crusades were not perpetuated by the USA, so therefore I fail to see whom the “we” is in that context. And if you mean specifically Christians, well, the USA is a secular nation. seriously?, you honestly think this? news for you pal, we are mostly ruled by the 'Christian ’ Fundamentalists, extremely right wing, pro Israel, Pro Corporate / Bank power, control. you do not understand even this much? seriously? if you think this is not so, sorry, news for you, you are dreaming, not sure what exactly, but fantasy nonetheless. News for you, the Crusades we ( the West, centuries ago ) began against the Holy Land, , to wrest it from Muslim control, carry on to this day. we are directly implicated,. involved. we perpetuate the madness of Christians against Muslims. Issac against Ishmael. claiming goodness ( sic ) and righteousness. as we continue to kill them, main them, alter them genetically… what part of this do you not understand/ ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/163 "2010-08-04T16:22:32Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > if you think this is fine and dandy, good for you. > however, i do not. I don’t think it’s fine. But I also don’t get piss drunk and post incomprehensible screeds on message boards - and then convince myself that I am really accomplishing something. I also don’t harbor tons of guilt about races or nationalities that I don’t really subscribe to in the first place, and then treat my guilt with alcohol and message board masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/164 "2010-08-04T16:32:58Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > > > The Crusades were not perpetuated by the USA, so therefore I fail to see whom the “we” is in that context. And if you mean specifically Christians, well, the USA is a secular nation. > > seriously?, you honestly think this? > news for you pal, > we are mostly ruled by the 'Christian ’ Fundamentalists, extremely right wing, pro Israel, Pro Corporate / Bank power, control. > you do not understand even this much? seriously? > > if you think this is not so, sorry, news for you, you are dreaming, not sure what exactly, but fantasy nonetheless. > > News for you, the Crusades we ( the West, centuries ago ) began against the Holy Land, , to wrest it from Muslim control, carry on to this day. > we are directly implicated,. involved. > we perpetuate the madness of Christians against Muslims. > Issac against Ishmael. > > claiming goodness ( sic ) and righteousness. > as we continue to kill them, main them, alter them genetically… > what part of this do you not understand/ I don’t think you understand the difference between “directly” and “indirectly.” No one with half a brain would say I was directly involved with the current war in Iraq, much less the the Crusades, centuries past. And, frankly, it would be pushing it to say I’m anything more than very indirectly involved in the Iraq war, considering I wasn’t old enough to vote at the time. I am, with or without my consent, a material provider for that war, however I am unable to do anything except provide materially for it, I am given no other option but intentional (complete) poverty, which I will not do. And it would be moronic, on every level, to state that I am directly involved or implicated in the Crusades. I mean, seriously, LSD is not meant to be put on cornflakes. ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/165 "2010-08-04T16:40:56Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > > [@Zanthor](#): > > > > seriously?, you honestly think this? > > news for you pal, > > we are mostly ruled by the 'Christian ’ Fundamentalists, extremely right wing, pro Israel, Pro Corporate / Bank power, control. > > you do not understand even this much? seriously? > > > > if you think this is not so, sorry, news for you, you are dreaming, not sure what exactly, but fantasy nonetheless. > > > > News for you, the Crusades we ( the West, centuries ago ) began against the Holy Land, , to wrest it from Muslim control, carry on to this day. > > we are directly implicated,. involved. > > we perpetuate the madness of Christians against Muslims. > > Issac against Ishmael. > > > > claiming goodness ( sic ) and righteousness. > > as we continue to kill them, main them, alter them genetically… > > what part of this do you not understand/ > > I don’t think you understand the difference between “directly” and “indirectly.” > > No one with half a brain would say I was directly involved with the current war in Iraq, much less the the Crusades, centuries past. > > And, frankly, it would be pushing it to say I’m anything more than very indirectly involved in the Iraq war, considering I wasn’t old enough to vote at the time. I am, with or without my consent, a material provider for that war, however I am unable to do anything except provide materially for it, I am given no other option but intentional (complete) poverty, which I will not do. And it would be moronic, on every level, to state that I am directly involved or implicated in the Crusades. > > I mean, seriously, LSD is not meant to be put on cornflakes. I spoke of ‘collective consciousness’ guilt by association. our collective consent to their slaughter, altered DNA, deformities… even tho we not personally kill, the slaughter of living things, be it animals we eat, Muslims we kill, recklessly, is one and the same. we are guilty by association, complicit. is this all too hard for you? sure seems like it.. prob best you don’t read the thread, for your own sake. What i question most is our motive. is it solely greed? Lust for their Oil, what else.? ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/166 "2010-08-04T17:15:21Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > I spoke of ‘collective consciousness’ guilt by association. > our collective consent to their slaughter, altered DNA, deformities… There is no “collective consciousness,” that’s bullshit. You and I are not a collective. I think independently of whatever bullshit you spew. > [@Zanthor](#): > > even tho we not personally kill, the slaughter of living things, be it animals we eat, Muslims we kill, recklessly, is one and the same. > we are guilty by association, complicit. First of all: There’s nothing wrong with killing animals, it’s killing them recklessly, and needlessly that I have a problem with. I enjoy steak, chicken and sushi on a regular basis. Hell, half the time I want my steak so rare it could be revived by a really good vet. Second: Did you honestly just compare killing muslims with killing a mouse? > [@Zanthor](#): > > is this all too hard for you? sure seems like it.. > prob best you don’t read the thread, for your own sake. Nope, it’s easy: You’re a moron. > [@Zanthor](#): > > What i question most is our motive. > is it solely greed? Lust for their Oil, what else.? What I question most is whether or not you shit yourself when you walk. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/167 "2010-08-04T17:15:23Z")
Well at least now, **Zanthor** , I know you don’t have a solution. You’re just blathering stream of consciousness bologna. Hey, I tried. Go back to “_doing what little you can_”. ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/168 "2010-08-04T17:37:04Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Well at least now, **Zanthor** , I know you don’t have a solution. You’re just blathering stream of consciousness bologna. Hey, I tried. Go back to “_doing what little you can_”. and this excuses you how just how exactly? enables you to conveniently avoid having to address any one of the issues i raised. You need a we nurse to show you how to think, Guide you? ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/169 "2010-08-04T17:46:06Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > > [@Zanthor](#): > > > > I spoke of ‘collective consciousness’ guilt by association. > > our collective consent to their slaughter, altered DNA, deformities… > > There is no “collective consciousness,” that’s bullshit. You and I are not a collective. I think independently of whatever bullshit you spew. > > First of all: There’s nothing wrong with killing animals, it’s killing them recklessly, and needlessly that I have a problem with. I enjoy steak, chicken and sushi on a regular basis. > > Hell, half the time I want my steak so rare it could be revived by a really good vet. > > Second: Did you honestly just compare killing muslims with killing a mouse? > Nope, it’s easy: You’re a moron. > > > [@Zanthor](#): > > > > What i question most is our motive. > > is it solely greed? Lust for their Oil, what else.? > > What I question most is whether or not you shit yourself when you walk. apart from your body, which is limited to time, here and know, there is thought, which does not die, the essence of you and yes, me, and the ‘enemy’ we slaughter, all are one. its only us that think we are separate. its an illusion you appear to think is gospel. I am sorry your comprehension of eternal things is so limited, its not really my job too try help you. you have to want to 1st, obviously you are not ready yet. its ok, be at peace.. yes, of course i did, reverence for ALL life, animal, plant, human, is fundamental in overcoming the brutality we think is our right to inflict upon this planet. each other, animals, etc etc etc. the planet, our home. good luck in remaining so insular ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/170 "2010-08-04T18:09:27Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > does this mean you will forever dismiss what i have to say as not being at ‘your level’? you don’t even want to hear it? > forever not want to discuss the issues i tried to raise. > heck > pick any one, try . killing animals for food. > Karma, relevant or not?\> ? > take your pick. > lol [http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/](http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/) ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/171 "2010-08-04T18:40:15Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > and this excuses you how just how exactly? I don’t need an excuse, you’re the one with an agenda. I asked what you thought a real world solution would be and you suggested we all sing Kumbaya. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/172 "2010-08-04T18:52:01Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > I sat on the front lies as the Police moved in Finally, we’re getting somewhere– Only Freud will tell. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/173 "2010-08-04T19:27:15Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > Good quality Russian Vodka yields temporary oblivion, but only for a few hours. (snip) news for you pal,we are mostly ruled by the 'Christian ’ Fundamentalists, extremely right wing, pro Israel, Pro Corporate / Bank power, control. you do not understand even this much? seriously? Christ. It’s Mel Gibson! ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/174 "2010-08-04T20:17:05Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Christ. It’s Mel Gibson! Nah. He hasn’t called anyone “Sugartits” yet. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/175 "2010-08-04T23:00:04Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > I spoke of ‘collective consciousness’ guilt by association. Collective guilt of that sort is unadulterated bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/176 "2010-08-05T00:07:12Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > What i question most is our motive. > is it solely greed? Lust for their Oil, what else.? You’re forgetting the most important factor. Evil. Eeeee-vil. We’re born to be badasses. Meditate on _that_, suckah. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/177 "2010-08-05T02:37:53Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > **apart from your body, which is limited to time, here and know, there is thought, which does not die,** Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/178 "2010-08-05T22:46:15Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Well at least now, **Zanthor** , I know you don’t have a solution. You’re just blathering stream of consciousness bologna. Hey, I tried. Go back to “_doing what little you can_”. I told you of what i did, 1969 onwards, until we left Vietnam. I registered as a Conscientious Objector, but was conscripted anyway. I refused to join their army, said you can shoot me, i would rather die than kill. This is what I did, what you do is totally up to you. I did not suggest to you that you scream and kick up bloody hell like i did, take whatever consequences they will dish out, as preferable to being made to kill for them. cos that is your choice, not mine to make for you. I am NOT your Mother, nor your Conscience. But hey, all you got is scorn, ridicule, prob cos you got nothing else huh? No self responsibility, no empathy? Just what no exactly? you tell me… We protested the Vietnam war cos we were Conscripted, thousands upon thousands of us came home in body bags. Not too many of us wanted to Kill. nor bleed. What will it take for your passion to rise up, say, enough of this madness? If they bring back the Draft?, and more of us actually might have to kill and die? they will for sure if Pakistan and Iran intrusions go pear shaped. Did the general masses comp[lain when ‘Stop Loss’ was introduced? nope, not barely a murmur cept from those that it directly affected. Heres a question for you.. Why do our care factor levels seem at near zero unless we personally have to bleed, or pay? Collective Consciousness. > **[Collective unconscious](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_unconscious)** > > In psychology, the collective unconsciousness (German: kollektives Unbewusstes) is a term coined by Carl Jung, which is the belief that the unconscious mind comprises the instincts of Jungian archetypes—innate symbols understood from birth in all humans. Jung considered the collective unconscious to underpin and surround the unconscious mind, distinguishing it from the personal unconscious of Freudian psychoanalysis. He believed that the concept of the collective unconscious helps to explain w Ps... excerpt. Jung stated, in his book Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious (p. 43), “My thesis then, is as follows: in addition to our immediate consciousness, which is of a thoroughly personal nature and which we believe to be the only empirical psyche (even if we tack on the personal unconscious as an appendix), there exists a second psychic system of a collective, universal, and impersonal nature which is identical in all individuals. This collective unconscious does not develop individually but is inherited. It consists of pre-existent forms, the archetypes, which can only become conscious secondarily and which give definite form to certain psychic contents.” continues from [http://search.icq.com/search/results.php?q=collective+consciousness&tb\_ver=2.0.0.2&lng=en-US&ch\_id=tb\_ff](http://search.icq.com/search/results.php?q=collective+consciousness&tb_ver=2.0.0.2&lng=en-US&ch_id=tb_ff) ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/179 "2010-08-05T23:07:16Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > > [@Zanthor](#): > > > > does this mean you will forever dismiss what i have to say as not being at ‘your level’? you don’t even want to hear it? > > forever not want to discuss the issues i tried to raise. > > heck > > pick any one, try . killing animals for food. > > Karma, relevant or not?\> ? > > take your pick. > > lol > > [http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/](http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/) Start here, [http://search.icq.com/search/results.php?q=Sennyu&tb\_ver=2.0.0.2&lng=en-US&ch\_id=tb\_ff](http://search.icq.com/search/results.php?q=Sennyu&tb_ver=2.0.0.2&lng=en-US&ch_id=tb_ff) let me know if i can assist you ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784/180 "2010-08-05T23:52:07Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > > [@Zeriel](#): > > > > [http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/](http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/) > > Start here, > [http://search.icq.com/search/results.php?q=Sennyu&tb\_ver=2.0.0.2&lng=en-US&ch\_id=tb\_ff](http://search.icq.com/search/results.php?q=Sennyu&tb_ver=2.0.0.2&lng=en-US&ch_id=tb_ff) > let me know if i can assist you Assist me, which of those links should I click? They all appear unrelated to your apparent retardation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fallujah-childrens-genetic-damage/547784.md?page=10)