# False dichotomies **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 23, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685 "2011-03-23T04:01:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/21 "2011-03-23T21:49:35Z")
Nature vs. Nurture. We’re learning more and more about how genetics and epigenetics interact with environment. It is an interesting dance. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/22 "2011-03-23T22:26:57Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The false dichotomy argument is often used. The first step is to presume that evolution and creationism are the only two possibilities. The second step is to offer some evidence that questions evolution. The summation is that anything that discredits evolution must support creationism. > > And this is false because even if you completely disproved evolution, you’ve done nothing to prove creationism. Creationism would still need its own evidence of being true. OK I’ll go with that. ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/23 "2011-03-24T16:07:10Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Nature vs. Nurture. > > We’re learning more and more about how genetics and epigenetics interact with environment. It is an interesting dance. I was going to add something similar: It’s all physical vs. it’s all mental. The mind affects the body and the body affects the mind. If you don’t believe me, consider adrenaline. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/24 "2011-03-24T16:21:17Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > I was going to add something similar: > It’s all physical vs. it’s all mental. Everybody knows it’s ninety percent mental, and the other half is physical. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/25 "2011-03-24T16:22:38Z")
You can deal with this, or you can deal with that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/26 "2011-03-25T05:06:26Z")
> [@Zyada](#): > > I was going to add something similar: > It’s all physical vs. it’s all mental. > > The mind affects the body and the body affects the mind. If you don’t believe me, consider adrenaline. what’s with adrenaline? ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/27 "2011-03-25T05:08:22Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > “The friend of my enemy is my friend.” > > “right-handed”/left-handed." Please explain how these two are false dichotomies? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/28 "2011-03-25T05:49:11Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > Please explain how these two are false dichotomies? The first one obviously isn’t. The second, maybe because some people think you can write, fence, play guitar, etc. only with either the left or right hand alone. Maybe like the way some people think the “left-brain” “right-brain” distinction is supposed to work. Even worse, it could be said that the whole Myers-Brigg test is understood by many in terms of false dichotomies. ---
**Author:** ![scamartistry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@scamartistry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scamartistry)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/29 "2011-03-25T06:38:48Z")
This is a very common one: God exist, there is an afterlife **OR** God does not exist, there is no afterlife … When in reality there are many more options: Afterlife but no God God but no afterlife Many Gods and afterlife …etc…etc…etc… ---
**Author:** ![Zyada](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zyada/32/3028_2.png) [@Zyada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyada)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/30 "2011-03-25T16:29:41Z")
> [@scamartistry](#): > > what’s with adrenaline? Adrenaline is a chemical that is released into your blood stream (physical), when something scares you (mental), which speeds up your heart rate (physical) and makes you more alert (mental). There’s more to it but that’s just a sample of how intertwined mind and body are. ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/31 "2011-03-25T17:36:06Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > That’s not an either/or choice, though. It’s damned if you do AND damned if you don’t. Both conditionals are true at the same time. Not a dichotomy, false or otherwise. I disagree. The choice is between doing or not doing the action that causes one to be damned in either case. The phrasing eliminates the possibility of there being additional options or outcomes. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/32 "2011-03-25T18:04:53Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > The choice is between doing or not doing the action that causes one to be damned in either case. A false dichotomy isn’t being stuck between a rock and a hard place (though claiming to be between a rock and a hard place could be an example of a false dichotomy - there may be soft ground in a third direction), it’s a situation where only two options (usually extreme, diametrically opposed ones) out of three or more of them are considered. ‘Damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ means, no matter what you do, you’re screwed - the ultimate outcome is going to be bad for you, or, no matter what the ultimate outcome, you’re going to come out looking bad. No dichotomy, let alone a false one. [Edit - and Chessic Sense is correct - both conditionals are, in fact, correct at the same time - if no matter what you do, or do not do, you’re screwed, you are, in fact, damned if you do, _ **and** _ damned if you don’t.] ---
**Author:** ![soulmurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@soulmurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/soulmurk)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/33 "2011-03-25T18:20:19Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > A false dichotomy isn’t being stuck between a rock and a hard place (though claiming to be between a rock and a hard place could be an example of a false dichotomy - there may be soft ground in a third direction), it’s a situation where only two options (usually extreme, diametrically opposed ones) out of three or more of them are considered. > > ‘Damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ means, no matter what you do, you’re screwed - the ultimate outcome is going to be bad for you, or, no matter what the ultimate outcome, you’re going to come out looking bad. No dichotomy, necessarily, let alone a false one. That’s what it is meant to mean, yes, but implies that whether one does Action A or does not, then one is damned, and removes any other possibilities. There may be, as you say, soft ground in an omitted third or fourth direction that does not result in damnation or looking bad. Perhaps this is an example of Morton’s Fork, though I maintain that it isn’t always just a choice between two unpleasant options. Context may be important, so I’ll cede the argument with an asterisk. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/34 "2011-03-25T18:34:05Z")
My fundy relatives think if you’re not a birther, you’re a commie pinko. There is no gray area, to them. One time on vacation in NYC about 6 years ago, I was walking down the street. It was our last day in the city, we were going to the subway to get to the airport. And we saw a protest! I was like hey, cool, a real live protest! I’d never seen one in-person before. Some chick came up and shoved a little army guy at me. I recoiled and told her to get away because I was tired as fuck and I didn’t know what was going on. She said “Oh, I guess you’re FOR Bush, then.” But I didn’t even know what the protest was for or what the little army guy was about. Made me mad because I was vehemently ANTI-Bush, but she didn’t seem to care to find that out. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/35 "2011-03-25T18:42:04Z")
> [@soulmurk](#): > > That’s what it is meant to mean, yes, but implies that whether one does Action A or does not, then one is damned, and removes any other possibilities. > > There may be, as you say, soft ground in an omitted third or fourth direction that does not result in damnation or looking bad. No, you’ve missed my point. To put the phrase in more prosaic terms: No matter what you do, you are _fucked_. If you do a (ie: what you’ve decided to do), or you don’t do a, no matter whether ‘not a’ is b, c, d, e, f, g, or anything else on through a dozen different alphabets, syllabaries and abjabs, the outcome is always going to be bad. ‘Damned if you do, damned if you don’t’ does not limit your choices - it just says that you’re in a situation where ALL choices lead to bad outcomes, so you might as well do what you were planning to do, because you can’t make things come out well by not doing it. The possibility of a good outcome is not guaranteed. Being between a rock and a hard place CAN be a false dichotomy, but it is not an example of a false dichotomy, because sometimes you really _are_ stuck in a situation where all possible options are bad. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685/36 "2011-03-25T19:28:49Z")
In my field: Scientific method OR compassionate care. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-dichotomies/575685.md?page=1)