# False equivalence of the day, Rep. Scalise edition **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 2, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799 "2015-01-02T20:17:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/81 "2015-01-03T21:48:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s definitely bigoted against gay people (and perhaps Greeks), and stupid, but not supremacist, in my view. yvmv. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/82 "2015-01-03T21:57:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s definitely bigoted against gay people (and perhaps Greeks), and stupid, but not supremacist, in my view. > > Contrast to this: [an example](http://archive.adl.org/special_reports/duke_own_words/on_blacks.html#.VKhi_Xvi82I) “straight out of white supremacists’ book”: “White people don’t need a law against rape, but if you fill this room up with your normal black bucks, you would, because niggers are basically primitive animals.”. Nice of you to admit that your “mileage varies” on this one, **Terr**. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/83 "2015-01-03T22:01:54Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > yvmv. When compared to the quote about rape and “primitive animals”, yes, they’re quite different. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/84 "2015-01-03T23:56:23Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > When compared to the quote about rape and “primitive animals”, yes, they’re quite different. What do you think “supremacy” means? Sharpton’s quote is all about supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/85 "2015-01-04T00:12:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What do you think “supremacy” means? Sharpton’s quote is all about supremacy. In the context of racial supremacy, it means the belief that white (or black, or other) people are superior, morally and practically, to other racial groups, and, crucially, that they should therefore dominate politically, socially, and economically other racial groups. So no, I don’t believe Sharpton’s quote is supremacist. Stupid, yes, and bigoted, but nothing about political, social, or economic dominance. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/86 "2015-01-04T01:57:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the context of racial supremacy, it means the belief that white (or black, or other) people are superior, morally and practically, to other racial groups, and, crucially, that they should therefore dominate politically, socially, and economically other racial groups. So no, I don’t believe Sharpton’s quote is supremacist. Stupid, yes, and bigoted, but nothing about political, social, or economic dominance. I find it kinda hard not tenuously agree that the peoples of continental Africa might just have been culturally more “advanced” than “Europeans” during the same time period. It sounds to me like Sharpton et Al. is making a general claim about a specific time period and to read anything more into that comes down to a question of implication vs. inference. Shouldn’t it really not be seen as which group was “_superior_”, but which groups had figured out more at a given time? Continental Americans (mostly Southerns) and the Indian/Arabian subcontinent had better calendars (astronomy and mathematics), Asians had gunpowder (chemistry), etc, etc, etc. Granted broad generalizations, but at least something? “Our group has a history as rich and significant as any other group and to ignore it ignores a part of human history . . . usually for specious, often racist, reasons” Saying that X group had a more sophisticated civilization at a given time doesn’t mean that other groups are forever locked into some less than fully human status historically and contemporaneously . . . something that White supremacy totally denies. White supremacy holds that Whites are the superior race and no other race can ever hope to catch up with them. “Mud people are, and forever will be, inferior to any and all European Whites”. Yes there are non-White supremacists, but they seem to less interested in some notion of racial superiority and more interested in challenging the science that too often has ignored any contribution. See: Who built the mound complexes in N America, who built the pyramids, etc, etc. “Surely the dark savages couldn’t have done that, must have been the lost tribes of Israel or space aliens!” And, yes, there are those Blacks that hold that that they are racially superior but that’s a mote compared to the long history of that position being fundamental to the history archeo and cultural anthropology, the beam in the eyes of some Whites. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/87 "2015-01-04T02:24:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the context of racial supremacy, it means the belief that white (or black, or other) people are superior, morally and practically, to other racial groups, and, crucially, that they should therefore dominate politically, socially, and economically other racial groups. So if someone thinks that whites are superior, morally and intellectually, to other groups but does not seek domination, that’s not “white supremacy”? I think it is. But as I said, you may have a different opinion. You’re welcome to it. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/88 "2015-01-04T03:41:13Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I find it kinda hard not tenuously agree that the peoples of continental Africa might just have been culturally more “advanced” than “Europeans” during the same time period. It sounds to me like Sharpton et Al. is making a general claim about a specific time period and to read anything more into that comes down to a question of implication vs. inference. > CMC fnord! Come on now, my friend. If I said western white culture was far more advanced today than Muslim or African cultures you wouldn’t be so happy about it because that has supremacist overtones. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/89 "2015-01-04T03:53:25Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So if someone thinks that whites are superior, morally and intellectually, to other groups but does not seek domination, that’s not “white supremacy”? I think it is. But as I said, you may have a different opinion. You’re welcome to it. I don’t think that saying one particular group is inferior to one’s own group is the same thing as saying one’s own group is superior to all other groups. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/90 "2015-01-04T04:03:13Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I don’t think that saying one particular group is inferior to one’s own group is the same thing as saying one’s own group is superior to all other groups. I didn’t say “all other groups”. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/91 "2015-01-04T04:08:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I didn’t say “all other groups”. What I’m saying is that in those quotes, Sharpton is slighting particular groups of people, thereby implying his group’s superiority over _those particular_ groups. In contrast, white supremacism holds that their group is superior to _all_ other groups. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/92 "2015-01-04T04:17:24Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > What I’m saying is that in those quotes, Sharpton is slighting particular groups of people, thereby implying his group’s superiority over _those particular_ groups. In contrast, white supremacism holds that their group is superior to _all_ other groups. The “all” is not a prerequisite to being a supremacist. Pre-WWII Japanese leaders considered themselves superior to most, but considered Germans to be equals. Still supremacism. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/93 "2015-01-04T06:27:10Z")
Just about every slice of humanity…“racial”, ethnic, religious, social, etc…has a supremacy myth, some foundational premise of their own inherent superiority. Hell, even the Irish! And there is a distinct and certain universal quality they all share, they are all nonsense. If it were not for the grim circumstances, the efforts of German academics to create a science of Aryan anthropology would be a good basis for a very intellectual comic opera. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/94 "2015-01-04T13:08:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The “all” is not a prerequisite to being a supremacist. Pre-WWII Japanese leaders considered themselves superior to most, but considered Germans to be equals. Still supremacism. This might have been their political line, but I seriously doubt that they actually considered Germans equal. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/95 "2015-01-04T13:13:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So if someone thinks that whites are superior, morally and intellectually, to other groups but does not seek domination, that’s not “white supremacy”? I think it is. But as I said, you may have a different opinion. You’re welcome to it. That’s definitely racist, but I’ve always understood supremacism to be insistent upon actual supremacy – rule over others. Sharpton’s statement was definitely bigoted – against gays, and possibly Greeks – in addition to just being stupid. But supremacy? I think the Duke quote about “primitive animals” fits that much better. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/96 "2015-01-04T18:39:09Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > All that really matters are two things: > > 1. What did Rep. Scalise say in that speech? > > 2. Did he know to whom he was speaking? Agreed & still not answered. All the “Whataboutery” concerning Sharpton or anyone else is nothing but a smokescreen, and a very large, well organised and given the high levels of network commentary, a Well-Funded one at that. Thats an awful lot of time, effort and money invested to bury something that some people argue was nothing, and from a party that prides itself on being both fiscally conservative and frugal with money. **So, WHY…? If there is nothing there, then why…?** Also… [CNN is reporting](http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/03/politics/david-duke-smerconish-interview/index.html) that while David Duke is offerring a waffle-house special on not knowing if he was there or not, it comes with a free side of Open Threats: > [@](#): > > While he said he remains murky on the actual details of who spoke at the event thirteen years ago, Duke threatened to “name names” of lawmakers with whom he’s “had relationships” if they continue to attack Scalise. > > “I would name names of any Democrat — and I know some Democrats and Republicans in the House of Representatives — who tried, in fact urged me, to support them,” he said. Now, personally, I Welcome him naming names on one side of the aisle, as it will definately lead to the naming of names on The Other side of the aisle… which leads to a better state of transparency for us all. I say this because I Personally believe that Transparency in Government is a Good thing, even if the people who disagree with me don’t. So, Out with it, Mr. [del]McCarthy[/del] Duke… spit out your list. America will be stronger because of it, not in spite of it. Do your Worst. _ **I Dare You!** _ ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/97 "2015-01-04T18:48:50Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > Come on now, my friend. If I said western white culture was far more advanced today than Muslim or African cultures you wouldn’t be so happy about it because that has supremacist overtones. Why yes, because it’s whiteness _isn’t_ what makes it more advanced. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/98 "2015-01-04T21:00:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s definitely racist, but I’ve always understood supremacism to be insistent upon actual supremacy – rule over others. > > Sharpton’s statement was definitely bigoted – against gays, and possibly Greeks – in addition to just being stupid. But supremacy? I think the Duke quote about “primitive animals” fits that much better. Surprisingly, I agree with **Terr** here. “Supremacy” can also just mean being better than everyone else. It just means “the the state of being supreme,” and supreme can mean “highest in degree or quality : greatest or highest possible.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/99 "2015-01-04T21:36:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Surprisingly, I agree with **Terr** here. “Supremacy” can also just mean being better than everyone else. It just means “the the state of being supreme,” and supreme can mean “highest in degree or quality : greatest or highest possible.” Do you agree with **Terr** about Sharpton’s quote, or just about the meaning of “supremacy”? ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799/100 "2015-01-04T21:55:58Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Why yes, because it’s whiteness _isn’t_ what makes it more advanced. > > CMC fnord! But the blackness of African cultures made them superior? You’re finding a nuance to Sharpton’s racist remarks that you don’t allow for mine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-equivalence-of-the-day-rep-scalise-edition/708799.md?page=6)