# False Rape Accusations Revisited **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2006, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227 "2006-08-03T18:43:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![psychloan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@psychloan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychloan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/61 "2006-08-04T02:04:35Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’d like to know why. By definition, rape is a crime in which the victim feels threatened, and I would think that makes a delay in reporting very easy to understand. Take a look at the Duke rape accusation for example. Perhaps the accuser felt “threatened,” but she didn’t report any rape until well after she reached a place of safety. In general, if somebody waits to report an alleged crime, it raises the possibility that some event besides the alleged crime triggered the report. In the case of the Duke rape accuser, it appears that what triggered her decision to make a rape accusation was the imminent threat of being involuntarily committed. i.e. she had a strong motive to lie. It’s also possible, of course, that there is a legitimate explanation for a delay in reporting. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/62 "2006-08-04T02:16:53Z")
> [@psychloan](#): > > Well, the first 2% figure simply cites to the “Department of Social Services.” I don’t see any way to verify that. The second 2% figure doesn’t cite a specific survey. You are free to do searches to try to track that information down. [The Columbia Journalism Review](http://archives.cjr.org/year/97/6/rape.asp) says it comes from an old source. In the end, they suggest that the numbers on false rape reports vary wildly. They also deal with some of the higher numbers you’ve mentioned. > [@](#): > > Marcia L. Roth, the author of the 1996 op-ed article in the Louisville Courier-Journal, attributed the 2 percent rate to the 1993 book Rape, the Misunderstood Crime, by Julie Allison and Lawrence Wrightsman. But Allison and Wrightsman weren’t so unequivocal. Noting that the frequency of false rape reports is difficult to assess, they didn’t do their own study; instead they looked at a synthesis of research findings from a 1979 book, Understanding the Rape Victim, by Sedelle Katz and Mary Ann Mazur. Katz and Mazur, it turns out, had reviewed studies dating back to 1956 that showed the frequency of unfounded and false rape reports ranging from a low of 1 percent to a high of 25 percent. Allison and Wrightsman simply chose the study that showed 2 percent. > [@](#): > > Take a look at the Duke rape accusation for example. Perhaps the accuser felt “threatened,” but she didn’t report any rape until well after she reached a place of safety. This is a really ridiculous objection. Why wouldn’t she wait until she’d reached a place where she was no longer in danger? Isn’t that what anybody would do when threatened? > [@](#): > > In general, if somebody waits to report an alleged crime, it raises the possibility that some event besides the alleged crime triggered the report. In the case of the Duke rape accuser, it appears that what triggered her decision to make a rape accusation was the imminent threat of being involuntarily committed. i.e. she had a strong motive to lie. In point of fact, I think the woman in the Duke case _is_ lying, and yes, that possibility exists with any delay. But you also have to keep in mind that there can be good reasons to delay reporting a crime, and I don’t think it should be a prejudicial factor one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/63 "2006-08-04T02:18:52Z")
D’oh. It’s probably obvious, but the last two quotes in my post are from **psychloan**. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/64 "2006-08-04T03:23:03Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Now do I got it? I believe so. The thread, one of our more notable trainwrecks extending to just over 28 pages, can be found in the **BBQ Pit** under [Lying whore.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366822&highlight=reason) > [@John Mace](#): > > I asked **Bricker** for some quotes to no avail. Can you link to the posts where this argument was advanced? I don’t know which specific thread you’re talking about. Beyond the thread, no. (I presume I have the correct thread, but I have no idea who may have been advancing the argument under consideration and no clue where to look in the thread.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/65 "2006-08-04T04:06:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I believe so. > > The thread, one of our more notable trainwrecks extending to just over 28 pages, can be found in the **BBQ Pit** under [Lying whore.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=366822&highlight=reason) > > Beyond the thread, no. (I presume I have the correct thread, but I have no idea who may have been advancing the argument under consideration and no clue where to look in the thread.) I don’t remember anyone in that thread saying: Why would she lie. In fact, it was the quite the opposite. It was \*\*Huerta \*\*claiming that she must be lying, and that the DA should have assumed that she was. So, I still have seen absolute ZERO evidence that anyone on this board has ever advanced the notion that women don’t lie about rape. There has been disagreement about just how common it is for women to do so, but that’s an entirely different thing. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/66 "2006-08-04T04:35:57Z")
Purely in regards to the discussion about bail and lawyers and such: fascinating! So what are you proposing? Should criminal defendants not be required to pay bail or be allowed to hire expensive lawyers? Should taxpayers pay for their private counsel if the state loses its case? Should the standards for grand jury indictments be raised? And should all this innovative new pro-defendant policy only be the case for rape, since bitches crazy? I suggest you suggest this to your Republican pals in Virginia. I’m sure this strong law and order stance will go over like hotcakes in a state that eliminated parole. Maybe Kilgore can run again on this: finally, he’s found an issue with traction! ---
**Author:** ![psychloan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@psychloan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychloan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/67 "2006-08-04T09:40:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [The Columbia Journalism Review](http://archives.cjr.org/year/97/6/rape.asp) says it comes from an old source. In the end, they suggest that the numbers on false rape reports vary wildly. They also deal with some of the higher numbers you’ve mentioned.\*\* 😕 If one number comes from a study that can be looked up and verified, and another number comes from an “old source,” obviously the first number is more credible. In any event, my original point was, in substance, that there are a lot of false rape reports made. The studies I cited support this claim adequately. > [@](#): > > This is a really ridiculous objection. Why wouldn’t she wait until she’d reached a place where she was no longer in danger? Isn’t that what anybody would do when threatened? I don’t think you read what I wrote. Here it is again, with emphasis added: > [@](#): > > Take a look at the Duke rape accusation for example. Perhaps the accuser felt “threatened,” but she didn’t report any rape until **well** after she reached a place of safety. > [@](#): > > In point of fact, I think the woman in the Duke case _is_ lying, and yes, that possibility exists with any delay. But you also have to keep in mind that there can be good reasons to delay reporting a crime, and I don’t think it should be a prejudicial factor one way or another. In my earlier post, I specifically said the following: > [@](#): > > It’s also possible, of course, that there is a legitimate explanation for a delay in reporting. Did you miss that? Anyway, I disagree that delay in reporting should not “be a prejudicial factor.” An extreme example: A man and woman get divorced. 4 years later, the man discovers that the woman has become a drug abuser and sues to get custody of the children. The next day, the woman files charges alleging that 5 years previous, while they were still living together, he raped her. Wouldn’t a reasonable person ask why the woman waited 5 years to file charges? Wouldn’t a reasonable person wonder if the charges were simply made as a tactical ploy in a custody battle? And doesn’t the delay make the charges less credible? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/68 "2006-08-04T10:37:26Z")
There was a story in today’s local newspaper (in Spanish, so even if they have put it in their webpage the link wouldn’t be good for much here) about two women being charged with “false testimony”. They accused the local priest of abusing the elder one when she’d gone to ask for help buying medication for her mother, the younger when she’d gone to arrange for her baby’s baptism. Cops found that the elder’s mom has been dead for years; that the priest had given her over 700€ to help pay to medication for this dead woman; that the youngest one doesn’t have a baby of that age! How can you be so dumb? Hell, I don’t know, but some people seem to work hard at it. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/69 "2006-08-04T13:43:51Z")
> [@](#): > > **Hamlet** said: > And I contend that the police would have done their job and investigated the claim. I also contend that the investigation would have led them to the numerous witness that damaged her credibility. I also contend that they would have looked for corroboration to her story and found little to none. I contend then that they would send their reports onto the district attorney, who would have reviewed the material, possibly interviewed her again, and would have refused to bring charges. And what of the six men accused? Their names and faces splashed across the television and the newspaper, appearing alongside the word ‘rapist’, their careers potentially ended by the accusation, home lives and reputation in the neighborhood wrecked, bankrupted by being unable to work sitting in jail cells or fronting bond money, struggling to hire a lawyer capable of giving them an adequate defense, the mental anguish of repeated interrogations, and the pressure to just plead guilty to make it all stop. That’s what happens with rape accusations. Look at the Duke case. Without corroboration or in fact any evidence at all, the entire country knows who Collin Finnerty, Reade Seligmann, and David Evans are, and not because they’re good lacrosse players. The fallout, of course, doesn’t end with destroying their lives. The coach of the lacrosse team is out of a job, the entire lacrosse team was disbanded for a season, and those players who weren’t accused of the rape couldn’t even get accepted as transfer students to other schools. So you say the media will report it if the charges are dropped? Whoop-dee-fuckin-doo. It’ll be a two inch blurb inside the fold that almost nobody sees, and I doubt it’ll say that she lied. More like it’ll just say the charges were dropped. And until these guys die, their names are going to be linked to the word ‘rapist’. Do you honestly think a ‘We’re sorry, the accuser lied and we were wrong.’ makes up for any of that? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/70 "2006-08-04T13:56:19Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > And what of the six men accused? Their names and faces splashed across the television and the newspaper, appearing alongside the word ‘rapist’, their careers potentially ended by the accusation, home lives and reputation in the neighborhood wrecked, bankrupted by being unable to work sitting in jail cells or fronting bond money, struggling to hire a lawyer capable of giving them an adequate defense, the mental anguish of repeated interrogations, and the pressure to just plead guilty to make it all stop. I think you have a problem with the media and not anything I described in my posts. Feel free to rant and rave about the unfairness of the publication of accusations, but, unless you have an objection to the police investigating reported crimes, I don’t understand your problem. > [@catsix](#): > > That’s what happens with rape accusations. Look at the Duke case. Without corroboration or in fact any evidence at all, the entire country knows who Collin Finnerty, Reade Seligmann, and David Evans are, and not because they’re good lacrosse players. The fallout, of course, doesn’t end with destroying their lives. The coach of the lacrosse team is out of a job, the entire lacrosse team was disbanded for a season, and those players who weren’t accused of the rape couldn’t even get accepted as transfer students to other schools. Yes, the Duke case is a travesty. > [@catsix](#): > > So you say the media will report it if the charges are dropped? Whoop-dee-fuckin-doo. It’ll be a two inch blurb inside the fold that almost nobody sees, and I doubt it’ll say that she lied. More like it’ll just say the charges were dropped. And until these guys die, their names are going to be linked to the word ‘rapist’. Do you honestly think a ‘We’re sorry, the accuser lied and we were wrong.’ makes up for any of that? And your proposal is? The police refuse to investigate rape cases? They don’t interview witnesses? They assume that anyone reporting a rape are lying? If you simply needed a post to quote before your wild-eyed rant, that’s fine I guess, but I have no clue why you picked my post for that. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/71 "2006-08-04T14:04:13Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In point of fact, I think the woman in the Duke case _is_ lying, and yes, that possibility exists with any delay. But you also have to keep in mind that there can be good reasons to delay reporting a crime, and I don’t think it should be a prejudicial factor one way or another. I agree. The mere prospect of putting one’s self under the scrutinizing eye of the court or the media would (and does) cause women to delay reporting the crime. Maturity and weighing the pros and cons can kick in years after the fact. Who looks forward to being called a whore, a slut, a crazy person, or a liar in front of the whole world? Husbands and boyfriends bail. Jobs are lost. Your relationship with mutual friends can be destroyed. The downside of reporting it \*at all \* can outweigh the benefits. I can certainly understand a person waiting for a very long time to say anything. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/72 "2006-08-04T14:53:58Z")
> [@](#): > > **Hamlet** said: > If you simply needed a post to quote before your wild-eyed rant, that’s fine I guess, but I have no clue why you picked my post for that. The point is, what do we do about the people who are falsely accused? Do we keep the accused’s name and photograph out of the media until we know the accusation has merit, and if that’s not possible (which it seems it isn’t), how do you go about fixing the problem? An apology and a handshake just doesn’t seem to cut it. The accused have rights, and lately it seems that’s been ignored entirely, by police and prosecutors (how many press conferences did Nifong attend?) It gets worse when you have this information, made public by the DA’s office or the police, and then talking heads on TV (Nancy Grace) screeching ‘Why would she lie?’ The only way I see to reduce false allegations is to punish those who make them very, very harshly, in balance to the damage they have caused in the lives of those they lie about. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/73 "2006-08-04T14:57:40Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > The only way I see to reduce false allegations is to punish those who make them very, very harshly, in balance to the damage they have caused in the lives of those they lie about. Those who are falsely accused have the ability to sue the accuser for damages. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/74 "2006-08-04T15:04:39Z")
> [@you with the face](#): > > Those who are falsely accused have the ability to sue the accuser for damages. And if the accuser is judgement-proof? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/75 "2006-08-04T15:17:00Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > The point is, what do we do about the people who are falsely accused? Do we keep the accused’s name and photograph out of the media until we know the accusation has merit, and if that’s not possible (which it seems it isn’t), how do you go about fixing the problem? An apology and a handshake just doesn’t seem to cut it. Once again, what do you want the police and DA to do about it? In the OP case, they didn’t arrest or charge the men, instead they charged the woman with false reports and fraud and she’s facing up to a year in jail. I understand you’re upset, but, seriously, what do you want from the police and DA’s and why are you blaming them? > [@catsix](#): > > The accused have rights, and lately it seems that’s been ignored entirely, by police and prosecutors (how many press conferences did Nifong attend?) Oh, please. I’ve granted you that the Duke case is a travesty, and I’ll grant you that Nifong shouldn’t be a prosecutor. But you’ve taken one example and pretended it’s rampant in the system. That’s silly. > [@catsix](#): > > It gets worse when you have this information, made public by the DA’s office or the police, and then talking heads on TV (Nancy Grace) screeching ‘Why would she lie?’ Might I suggest you do another Duke thread, because you apparently haven’t gotten everything out of your system. > [@catsix](#): > > The only way I see to reduce false allegations is to punish those who make them very, very harshly, in balance to the damage they have caused in the lives of those they lie about. Which is why the police and DA never arrested or charged the men, and are now prosecuting the woman. What more do you want from them? A pound of flesh? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/76 "2006-08-04T15:24:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And if the accuser is judgement-proof? Then the accusers are shit out of luck. Your solution to this would be…? Seems to me this is a fact of life. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/77 "2006-08-04T17:48:52Z")
> [@psychloan](#): > > If one number comes from a study that can be looked up and verified, and another number comes from an “old source,” obviously the first number is more credible. Any reason you didn’t comment on the fact that that article also called “your” statistics into question? > [@](#): > > I don’t think you read what I wrote. I did, and both of your self-quotes are unnecessary. I felt you were paying lipservice to both issues and not actually dealing with them. The problem is that you are using **well** as a weasel word. In the Duke case, the woman reported the rape a few hours after it is alleged to have happened. How troubling is that, really? You’re not suggesting that a delay of a few hours is as questionable as a delay of five years, are you? Perhaps a delay of five years ought to be questionable, but that’s not the norm as far as I know, and it definitely doesn’t apply to the Duke case. ---
**Author:** ![psychloan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@psychloan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychloan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/78 "2006-08-04T17:51:25Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > The only way I see to reduce false allegations is to punish those who make them very, very harshly, in balance to the damage they have caused in the lives of those they lie about. I’m not sure that this is the best idea. Because it will discourage people who make false accusations from recanting. ---
**Author:** ![psychloan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@psychloan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychloan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/79 "2006-08-04T18:06:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Any reason you didn’t comment on the fact that that article also called “your” statistics into question? 😕 What article? Which statistics? > [@](#): > > I did, and both of your self-quotes are unnecessary. I felt you were paying lipservice to both issues and not actually dealing with them. The problem is that you are using **well** as a weasel word. In the Duke case, the woman reported the rape a few hours after it is alleged to have happened. How troubling is that, really? It’s extremely troubling. See below. > [@](#): > > You’re not suggesting that a delay of a few hours is as questionable as a delay of five years, are you? It depends on the circumstances. In the right circumstances, a 5-year delay would not trouble me at all. What’s problematic about the delay in the Duke case is that the accuser apparently did not report any alleged rape until **after** she learned she was to be involuntarily committed. If she had simply gone home and gone to bed and then filed a report the next morning, the delay would bother me much less. But in the Duke case, it appears that what triggered the rape accusation was the prospect of being involuntarily committed. It looks like she didn’t say she was raped until the moment she perceived it was in her interests to do so. Honest people tell the truth whether or not it’s in their interests to do so. Liars say whatever is in their interests at the moment. So if somebody’s statements conveniently change with their interests, it’s an indication that they are lying. And that’s why the delay in the Duke case is so troubling. Look at it this way: If it came out that the accuser called 911 and reported a rape 5 minutes before her encounter with the police, do you think that would help the prosecution’s case? ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227/80 "2006-08-04T18:19:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And if the accuser is judgement-proof? Since the damages were largely to the reputation of the falesly accused I would guess a counter-suit for false accusations, if covered in the media at anywhere near the coverage level of the original accusations, would make the accused whole regardless of cash recovery or not. Of course the legal fees of said counter-suit would be like salt in the wound, and media coverage is hardly guaranteed, but cash is not the only remedy available to the wrongfully accused. Enjoy, Steven [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/false-rape-accusations-revisited/367227.md?page=5)