# Families of two masked armed robbers outraged that armed citizen killed their boys. Want "justice". **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 7, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310 "2013-11-07T04:31:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/1 "2013-11-07T04:31:40Z")
Two masked, armed robbers robbed a store and were confronted by an armed citizen outside the store who shot and killed them. I understand the families are saddened at losing their loved ones but they seem to have no capacity at all to lay blame at the feet of the two robbers. They want the shooter prosecuted. They conform to every awful thug enabling stereotype the pro gun crowd could wish for. [Story and video here](http://m.wfmz.com/families-want-justice-for-suspects-killed-after-robbery-of-kricks-korner-store-in-reading/-/15946050/22819374/-/vosp0z/-/index.html) [More here](http://m.wfmz.com/kricks-korner-store-in-reading-reopens-for-business-day-after-deadly-robbery/-/15946050/22817130/-/nqemvcz/-/index.html) > [@](#): > > READING, Pa. - > Family members of the two masked men shot to death after allegedly robbing a store in Reading spoke out Tuesday. > > “It’s not fair,” said Virginia Medina, mother of 24-year-old William Medina, who police said robbed Krick’s Korner store alongside 18-year-old Robert De Carr on Monday. > > The two men were shot and killed by a private citizen while leaving the store, and family members want to see charges pressed. > > “[William] had no right to lose his life over something that man could have called the police for,” said Medina. “He took the law into his own hands and walked away scot-free.” > > “How about if people just start running around here, policing the city on their own? How much worse is it going to get?” said Peter Ratel, Medina’s cousin. > > The family members said they are hurt by comments suggesting the alleged robbers were “thugs.” > > According to Medina, William was “no big hard criminal” and was rather a family-man who loved his young daughter. > > Robert De Carr was described similarly by his sister, Taylor De Carr. > > “My brother was a good kid,” she told 69 News. > [@](#): > > READING, Pa. - > Twenty-four hours after two men were killed during a botched robbery in Reading, the corner store where it happened was open again for business. > > Crowds gathered outside Krick’s Korner, 1671 N. Ninth St., and candles flickered on the sidewalk Tuesday. > > Two masked men armed with guns burst inside the store Monday afternoon. They were met by a man described by officials as a “concerned citizen,” who witnessed the robbery in progress. > > “He saw the first suspect with his arms extended, holding a large revolver, and he looked and saw a second suspect, also with his arms extended,” said Sgt. John Solecki, Reading Police Dept. > > That citizen, whose name has not been released, called 911. When the two men came outside, they threatened him, and the tables were turned, said police. > > The store owner had no comment Tuesday, but former city councilman and store regular, Mike Schorn, spoke on his behalf. > > “He’s so sad by the whole thing because it’s bad for his business, and it’s very sad for the obvious result,” said Schorn. > Alexander Garcia-Bialek was charged Tuesday, keeping his head down as he was led out of police headquarters overnight. > > Garcia-Bialek, 21, was picked up at his home in Fleetwood, and police are calling him the would-be getaway driver. > > “He was charged as an accomplice because he was involved in the planning of this robbery where they targeted that store,” said Solecki. > > Garcia-Bialek is facing second degree murder and conspiracy charges. > > Police said they are confident no one else was involved in the robbery ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/2 "2013-11-07T04:46:32Z")
It’s a little vague where the shooter felt he had to shoot the robbers, but I guess that’ll be more clear later. Still, your typical robber isn’t the brightest bulb, and probably doesn’t realize that it is VERY possible if you break in somewhere, you can easily end up dead. Instead of you break it, you bought it, you break IN, you bought it. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/3 "2013-11-07T04:49:41Z")
Wow, that first one reads like an Onion article… ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/4 "2013-11-07T04:57:56Z")
In related news, it seems the two masked robbers had a getaway car driver with them too. That driver has now been arrested and charged with the murders. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/5 "2013-11-07T06:56:03Z")
Darwin award candidates? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/6 "2013-11-07T08:22:20Z")
I’ve seen mothers of killed armed robbers tell reporters “They didn’t have to kill my boy, everyone has to work”. Yes armed robber is a profession. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/7 "2013-11-07T08:27:52Z")
I’m always amazed at the criminals and family members of criminals who expect OTHER people to follow laws, and expect OTHER people to be careful not to hurt them. Someone who commits robbery IS a bad person, and IS a criminal. Yes, they might have had their good points…but the fact of the matter is, these guys decided that they were going to rob a store, and they probably didn’t much care if they hurt or killed other people while doing this. The two threatened someone (the shooter), and now their family members believe that the shooter should have just called the cops? Sorry, when you threaten someone with a gun, I think that you’ve decided to take the chance that the threatened person is going to respond with deadly force. I’m sure the family members are grieving. But perhaps this could have been prevented if the family members had not been quite so accepting of the robbers’ faults, instead of insisting that the men were “good men” who had just made a few unfortunate choices. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/8 "2013-11-07T08:59:32Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > I’m always amazed at the criminals and family members of criminals who expect OTHER people to follow laws, and expect OTHER people to be careful not to hurt them. Someone who commits robbery IS a bad person, and IS a criminal. Yes, they might have had their good points…but the fact of the matter is, these guys decided that they were going to rob a store, and they probably didn’t much care if they hurt or killed other people while doing this. > > The two threatened someone (the shooter), and now their family members believe that the shooter should have just called the cops? Sorry, when you threaten someone with a gun, I think that you’ve decided to take the chance that the threatened person is going to respond with deadly force. > > I’m sure the family members are grieving. But perhaps this could have been prevented if the family members had not been quite so accepting of the robbers’ faults, instead of insisting that the men were “good men” who had just made a few unfortunate choices. I don’t like guns, but I agree. What we’re seeing here is just a mother’s blind love, or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/9 "2013-11-07T09:28:41Z")
> [@](#): > > According to Medina, William was “no big hard criminal” and was rather a family-man who loved his young daughter. > > Robert De Carr was described similarly by his sister, Taylor De Carr. > > “My brother was a good kid,” she told 69 News. There was a famous case, also in Reading, PA, about 10-12 years ago, in which an angry ex-boyfriend chased his terrified ex, infant child and a companion all over the city, then, when they came to halt at a grade crossing, used his vehicle to push theirs in front of a moving train, killing everyone in the car. At the arraignment, the ex-boyfriend’s mother was prominently quoted as saying, “but he’s a good boy”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/10 "2013-11-07T10:26:05Z")
Threaten people with guns and end up getting shot. Sounds like they already got their justice. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/11 "2013-11-07T12:18:26Z")
Ah, Reading…my old hometown, and one of the worst impoverished shitholes in America these days. I feel bad about that but whaddayagonnadoo. I agree it’s a little vague as presented. If they came out and the guy just shot them without being in danger, then I could see a case. If they threatened him, then I would guess that the shootings were justified. I’m sorry for the family of the young men who were killed but armed robbery is a dangerous profession to go into. It could just as easily have gone wrong and the shopkeeper or a bystander been killed; I’ve no sympathy for the young men themselves. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/12 "2013-11-07T13:38:51Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Wow, that first one reads like an Onion article… Are we certain it isn’t? > [@](#): > > “My brother was a good kid,” she told 69 News. “We bring you the news, while you bring us the news”. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/13 "2013-11-07T14:21:10Z")
What a weird coincidence that they threatened an unrelated concerned citizen outside of the place they robbed who had already called 911 and who was able to turn the tables on them. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/14 "2013-11-07T15:17:16Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > What a weird coincidence that they threatened an unrelated concerned citizen outside of the place they robbed who had already called 911 and who was able to turn the tables on them. Reminds me of the guy in Texas several years ago, who called 911 when he saw his neighbor’s (unoccupied) house being robbed by two men, and said he was so mad about it (although he didn’t know his neighbor) that he was going to take his shotgun and go out and kill them. The operator repeatedly told him not to do it, but he did, and killed them both. Of course, he claimed that they threatened him, and of course, he got away with murder, IMO. The police investigating the incident said the men were shot in the back. This case is different, in that the crooks were armed, and were robbing people, not taking stuff from an unoccupied home. But I would guess the threat level to the shooter was about the same. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/15 "2013-11-07T15:26:58Z")
With parents and family like that, no wonder they thought robbery was a great profession. You reap what you sow. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/16 "2013-11-07T15:44:07Z")
Think of it as evolution in action. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/17 "2013-11-07T15:59:47Z")
It seems like everyone views this like a black & white, comically absurd situation, but I’m seeing lots of shades of gray. Armed robbery is a big deal and should carry a serious punishment. But let’s be clear: are you all saying that armed robbery merits the death penalty? I do think that if the two armed thieves threatened the bystander, that bystander was right to protect himself. I am curious how a bystander who was threatened by two armed gunmen was able to draw and take down two assailants. I hope that its not a case of a well-meaning vigilante unnecessarily escalating a situation to wild west brand of justice. I can totally sympathize that the citizen vigilante may fear retribution from the armed thieves’ family and/or crew. But I think that’s one of the reasons we typically don’t encourage citizens to play judge, jury, and executioner. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/18 "2013-11-07T16:09:26Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > It seems like everyone views this like a black & white, comically absurd situation, but I’m seeing lots of shades of gray. > > Armed robbery is a big deal and should carry a serious punishment. But let’s be clear: are you all saying that armed robbery merits the death penalty? > > I do think that if the two armed thieves threatened the bystander, that bystander was right to protect himself. I am curious how a bystander who was threatened by two armed gunmen was able to draw and take down two assailants. > > I hope that its not a case of a well-meaning vigilante unnecessarily escalating a situation to wild west brand of justice. I can totally sympathize that the citizen vigilante may fear retribution from the armed thieves’ family and/or crew. But I think that’s one of the reasons we typically don’t encourage citizens to play judge, jury, and executioner. Two armed, masked men exiting a store with guns extended after robbing it are not due much benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/19 "2013-11-07T16:18:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Armed robbery is a big deal and should carry a serious punishment. But let’s be clear: are you all saying that armed robbery merits the death penalty? I think that anyone who commits armed robbery has no cause for complaint if s/he is killed during that crime. The death penalty is decided in a court of law, where presumably the judge and jury can take their time to weigh all the factors. A person who is threatened by another person who is waving a gun, though, has to act quickly and decisively. Committing a crime incurs a certain risk, or at least it should. Armed robbery should not be a way to get some money without running a certain risk to one’s health and life. Don’t like the risk? Don’t commit the crime. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310/20 "2013-11-07T16:43:07Z")
> [@B.Serum](#): > > But let’s be clear: are you all saying that armed robbery merits the death penalty? Because of an armed robbery, I have a metal plate holding the pieces of my skull together. I am alive because of an excellent surgeon, and a hell of a lot of luck. The detective who handled the case was of the opinion that the robber did not intend to leave any witnesses. Armed robbers kill victims and bystanders often enough that you are justified in erring on the side of caution, and removing a perceived threat to your life. A firearm is a lethal weapon. If you see one pointed at you, or anywhere near you, you are justified in perceiving a threat. It doesn’t matter whether or not the gun is loaded. It doesn’t matter whether or not it is a real gun. You act on the information you have. If you see masked people carrying weapons, you have to assume that they are willing to use them. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/families-of-two-masked-armed-robbers-outraged-that-armed-citizen-killed-their-boys-want-justice/673310.md?page=2)