# Family fights back when 3 gunmen storm their home **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203 "2013-02-23T22:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/61 "2013-02-26T19:02:43Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Just wait till the relatives of the dead robber file a multi-million $$ wrongful death lawsuit against the kid. They will have to spend lots of money to defend their son. That is why killing intruders is a better way to go. The two who got away will testify to what a wonderful lad the dead guy was..“he was a devoted father..aspiring rapper..family man, etc.” Oh, but of course he’s an “aspiring rapper.” Was it really necessary to throw in a sly comment suggesting the home invaders were black? Especially when, by linking to the story, the one picture of one of them shows he’s white? ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/62 "2013-02-26T20:59:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Oh, but of course he’s an “aspiring rapper.” Was it really necessary to throw in a sly comment suggesting the home invaders were black? > > Especially when, by linking to the story, the one picture of one of them shows he’s white? Of course it was, don’t be silly. It’s what a real man thinks about while holding his gun. First, how by mentioning killing people with it women immediately start reaching for your crotch, and how the only good n— is a dead n—. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/63 "2013-02-26T22:33:03Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > In other Houston news, > > [4-year-old boy dies after shooting himself](http://www.khou.com/news/local/BREAKING-NEWS-HPD-Homicide-investigating-fatality-of-child-in-north-Houston-192861781.html). > > [Stabbing at shooting range](http://www.khou.com/news/local/HSCO-Two-people-injured-in-stabbing-at-Spring-shooting-range-192765931.html). > > [9-year-old shot in the leg near shooting ranges](http://www.khou.com/news/local/Sheriff-9-year-old-shot-in-the-leg-in-Fort-Bend-County-192758121.html). > > I like my gun news balanced. 🙂 Or alternatively [Man defends home without gun](http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/City-Heights-Homeowner-Baseball-Bat-Robbers-140563173.html) ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/64 "2013-02-27T00:25:41Z")
I’m not quite sure what the OP expected to accomplish with this thread. I mean, guns are so rarely useful in defending against burglars _that the OP thought it was remarkable enough to post about it happening_. And then, of course, there’s the fact that it’s far easier to find stories where a gun didn’t come in handy at all, or where it actually made things _worse_… Is it just me, or is this thread really an argument \*against \*gun ownership? Well done, **aceplace57** , well done. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/65 "2013-02-27T02:28:05Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > And then, of course, there’s the fact that it’s far easier to find stories where a gun didn’t come in handy at all, or where it actually made things _worse_… Like this lady? [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vby4CgLOR44/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC6AKKAgwIABABGGUgWig8MA8=&rs=AOn4CLD7AyJlQO_RANBw8u-zajhgjiFKHw "Teen Mom Kills Intruder Breaking Into Her Home While on Phone With 911") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vby4CgLOR44) ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/66 "2013-02-27T02:37:06Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > This demonstrates the false sense of security from guns. Seems like the story demonstrates genuine security from guns. > [@](#): > > The intruders should have had to go through other active defense systems. In many of these “saved by gun” stories, it doesn’t appear there were any such systems in place. So it’s the families fault those poor intruders broke in? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/67 "2013-02-27T02:49:41Z")
[quote=“Kable, post:65, topic:651203”] Like this lady? [/QUOTE] So unusual it made national news. And she used a shotgun. See: [http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-31/opinions/36659667\_1\_gun-violence-gun-control-proposals-gun-rights](http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-31/opinions/36659667_1_gun-violence-gun-control-proposals-gun-rights) > [@](#): > > Women with a gun in the home were nearly three times as likely to be the victim of homicide than women living in a home without firearms, according to a 2003 study in the Annals of Emergency Medicine. . . . > > Trotter’s Exhibit A was Sarah McKinley, an Oklahoma widow alone with her 3-month-old son when two intruders, one armed with a foot-long knife, broke into her home. McKinley shot and killed one of them with a Remington 12-gauge shotgun. > > But here’s the problem with Trotter’s example: Nothing in the restrictions under discussion would have stopped McKinley. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/68 "2013-02-27T02:58:11Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > So unusual it made national news. Like the mass shootings? ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/69 "2013-02-27T02:59:22Z")
Classic example of why VP Joe Bidens idea of giving your wife / daughter a double barrel shotgun will scare intruders away is dead wrong. Esp if there are three or more intruders. Here is another video showing why women should use AR-15’s, and not shotguns > **[ItemFix - Social Video Factory](https://www.itemfix.com/?r=ll)** > > Social Video Factory (the Ar-15 example is near the end of the video) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/70 "2013-02-27T03:15:43Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > Classic example of why VP Joe Bidens idea of giving your wife / daughter a double barrel shotgun will scare intruders away. Unless there are three or more intruders. One intruder was shot, then the other ran away. That hardly supports the idea you have to kill them all. I can find zero incidents where the homeowner shot three intruders. Although extremely rare, here is how shooting at three intruders goes, when they don’t draw first, and you have good aim: > **[Arizona News](https://www.azfamily.com/news/Homeowner-in-west-Phoenix-shoots-1-of-3-intruders-190431101.html)** > > Arizona Breaking news, local stories, and On Your Side investigations from the state’s largest television newsroom. > [@](#): > > Police say a homeowner in west Phoenix has shot one of three men who allegedly broke into his house. > > Phoenix police say two other intruders fled the scene and officers were still looking for them Friday afternoon. If you like such anecdotal evidence, try googling these terms: homeowner shot with own gun ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/71 "2013-02-27T03:22:07Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I can find zero incidents where the homeowner shot three intruders. Heck all you had to do was google “homeowner shot three intruders.” > **[StockBot by Examiner.com - Stock Examiner bot by Examiner.com](https://examiner.com)** > > Discover Stock Examiner, the AI-powered chatbot delivering instant, interactive stock charts, real-time financials, breaking news, stock screeners, and more—all in one seamless experience. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/72 "2013-02-27T14:24:39Z")
and here is another homeowner who shot 3 intruders [http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/01/03/read-react-sacramento-homeowner-shoots-intruders/](http://www.gunsandammo.com/2013/01/03/read-react-sacramento-homeowner-shoots-intruders/) another one in Virginia > **[Deputies: Homeowner shoots 2 intruders dead, third runs off](https://www.wtvr.com/2013/02/17/prospect-deadly-home-invasion)** > > Homeowner reported three people with guns entered his house and exchanged gun shots. and here is one, where a homeowner is shot first by the intruder, then he shoots back. Misses with the first 2 shots (he was 90 yrs old) but hit the intruder with the THIRD bullet. Intruder still charges him with gun. Intruder then begs homeowner not to shoot him again, saying HE has kids. PS intruder is now suing the home owner [http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083\_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues-calif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57540638-504083/burglar-sues-calif-homeowner-90-who-returned-fire/) meanwhile, in Ohio, Joe Biden, junior, has 5 intruders break in…he is only able to shoot 2 of the 5 [http://www.easybakegunclub.com/news/2846/Homeowner-fights-back,-two-of-five-intruders-shot-.html#.US4WtKJPZ2A](http://www.easybakegunclub.com/news/2846/Homeowner-fights-back,-two-of-five-intruders-shot-.html#.US4WtKJPZ2A) ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/73 "2013-02-27T14:29:43Z")
another homeowner shoots 2 of 3 intruders in Colorado > **[2 Colorado Springs home invasion suspects shot, one still at large](https://kdvr.com/news/2-colorado-springs-home-invasion-suspects-shot-one-still-at-large/)** > > COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. — Colorado Springs Police are investigating a shooting that left two home invasion suspects in the hospital Monday night. According to Biden, 2 out of 3 is OK. just offer the 3rd intruder milk and cookies until the police arrive ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/74 "2013-02-27T14:41:35Z")
homeowner uses semi automatic assault gun to shoot at FOUR intruders. Mrs Biden would have been raped and killed by the other two [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/DuhKCiY-lu0/hqdefault.jpg "Armed Homeowner Shoots Robbers During Daytime Invasion (AZ)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0) ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/75 "2013-02-27T19:13:20Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > homeowner uses semi automatic assault gun to shoot at FOUR intruders. > > Mrs Biden would have been raped and killed by the other two > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0) That looks a lot more like a drug thing that a home invasion of random citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/76 "2013-02-28T01:07:42Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > That looks a lot more like a drug thing that a home invasion of random citizen. I thought that looked like a possibility too, but news since then indicates it was an armed robbery: "Sheriff’s detectives ID last of four suspects in home invasion shootout by David L. Teibel on Mar. 03, 2009, under Local, Special Sheriff’s detectives have identified the last of four suspects in a Feb. 5 home invasion shootout caught on a video surveillance camera. An arrest warrant charges Jose Manuel Chavez, 21, with aggravated assault, attempted armed robbery and attempted burglary, Detective Sgt. Terry Parish II said. Two other men – Alejandro Durazo and David Gutierrez, both 22 – have been arrested in the case. Another being sought is thought to be in Mexico, Parish said. Durazo and Gutierrez were charged with attempted armed robbery, attempted aggravated robbery and aggravated assault, authorities said earlier. Jesus Mendivil, 23, the suspect believed to have left the country, also is being sought in a warrant obtained last month on the same three charges, Parish said. The home invasion occurred in the 300 block of West Vande Loo Street, near South Mission and West Valencia roads, Deputy Dawn Barkman said at the time. Four men armed with pistols and assault rifles tried to break into the home, but were stopped by the homeowner, who grabbed a pistol of his own kept near the front door and opened fire, Barkman said. One of the four was shot in the arm and they all fled, Barkman said. Parish said Mendivil is believed to be the suspect who sustained the minor wound." > **[Tucson Citizen - The Voice of Tucson](https://tucsoncitizen.com/)** > > Tucson Citizen - The Voice of Tucson ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/77 "2013-02-28T01:38:35Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > and here is another homeowner who shot 3 intruders No, it’s another web page on the same incident. Yes, I should have found that incident when I seached for homeowners or renters who had to shoot three home invaders before they were stopped. > [@Kinthalis](#): > > That looks a lot more like a drug thing that a home invasion of random citizen. Without proof, I see no reason to allege that. But the link does say that after one assailant was shot in the arm, all four ran away. So it’s hardly an example of a shotgun not being enough. The US averages 87 gun deaths a day. The average number of those 87 who were criminals gunned down by law-abiding civilians is a small fraction of one. Small but possibly growing. Googling does show our supposedly liberal media\* reporting, more and more often, that a burglar – often unarmed – has been killed by the homeowner. A heartwarming example: [15-year-old burglary suspect in St. Louis is dead after being shot by the homeowner. . . . The 33-year-old male homeowner went outside to investigate and reportedly shot Murphy as Murphy approached him. . . . Police say the shooting appears to be justified.]([http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/16/st-louis-police-homeowner-killed-burglar/](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/16/st-louis-police-homeowner-killed-burglar/)) I wonder if all the NRA members who, in their teens, once tresspassed in the middle of night, had been shot and killed, how many would be left. Perhaps a bigger problem with these stories is that the person full of holes is liable to be law abiding citizen: [individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P \< .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession.](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099) * * * - EDITED: I see that my liberal media sarcasm is misdirected since it is a FoxNews story. Except that it really is an Associated Press story that must have appears in many news outlets. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/78 "2013-02-28T01:59:57Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > [individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P \< .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession.](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099) I just printed off this study so I could read it, as it just does not sound very likely to me. In doing so I saw it has already been heavily criticized in the same Journal as such: > [@](#): > > The study by Branas et al.1 contains errors in > design and execution that make it difficult to > determine the meaning of their findings. > Their study assessed risk for being assaulted > and then shot, a compound outcome event > whose second element (being shot) is not inevitable > given the first (being assaulted). Persons > who were assaulted but not shot are not > studied. We do not know whether any association > between firearm possession and their > outcome measure applies to assault, to being > shot given an assault, or both. > . . . Continued in letter: [http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdfplus/10.2105/AJPH.2009.187476](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdfplus/10.2105/AJPH.2009.187476) I’m still going to read the article to see which is true. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/79 "2013-02-28T04:16:07Z")
> [@Enkel](#): > > In our area, when people break into occupied homes (three in last 5 years) it has been drug dealers who are unhappy with recent transactions and are looking to either get their drugs back or their money. > [@Enkel](#): > > It would be interesting to see any follow up articles about this incident. > > It really sounds like the kid was trying to rip off drug dealers and it went south on him. > > Why would a burglar push through a front door where they could be recognized by any survivors? > > The only reason to push through the front door is because the intruders expected a confrontation, but didn’t intend to kill anyone. After all, the kid isn’t going to be running to the police with an assault complaint when the assault was because he hadn’t paid off his drug shipment. > > That would definitely fit the pattern around here where the local-idiot figures he can get his drugs wholesale by selling to his buddies. The dealers sell them on spec and the local-idiot ends up drinking away the funds thinking that the dealer will be cool with getting paid a week late. These. I, too, will be interested in how this plays out, though I doubt anything more will be published about it, even locally. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/80 "2013-02-28T04:29:54Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > These. I, too, will be interested in how this plays out, though I doubt anything more will be published about it, even locally. Yeah, somehow it has to be the victims fault. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203.md?page=5)