# Family fights back when 3 gunmen storm their home **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 23, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203 "2013-02-23T22:07:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/81 "2013-02-28T05:18:35Z")
Yes, with these sorts of things it often is. Victims are not always innocents. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/82 "2013-02-28T05:21:05Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Yes, with these sorts of things it often is. Victims are not always innocents. Guilty until proven so, is that your game? ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/83 "2013-02-28T06:17:01Z")
Have you all seen these home invasion stories? Ignore the first one, it’s proven false, but it’s followed by three real events, as per Snopes > **[Did an 11-Year-Old Girl Shoot and Kill 'Illegal Aliens' Burglarizing Her Home?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/home-invasion-thwarted/)** > > Rumor: Two armed "illegal aliens" perpetrating a home invasion were killed by an 11-year-old girl with a shotgun. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/84 "2013-02-28T12:10:08Z")
And then this just happened. [http://www.khou.com/news/Police-Man-catches-3-juvenile-suspects-inside-northwest-home-193598561.html](http://www.khou.com/news/Police-Man-catches-3-juvenile-suspects-inside-northwest-home-193598561.html) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/85 "2013-02-28T12:33:19Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > [Stabbing at shooting range](http://www.khou.com/news/local/HSCO-Two-people-injured-in-stabbing-at-Spring-shooting-range-192765931.html). Gun Violence: You’re Doing It Wrong. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/86 "2013-02-28T14:46:38Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > It was a tragedy. > > A tragedy that two got away. Blame Obama’s new gun control policies. If the kid had one of those high capacity magazines he might not have been so stingy with the bullets! > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t think it’s pride in the act of shooting somebody. The pride is defending your family, even if it involved shooting somebody. Yeah but did you see how close that grouping was? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/87 "2013-02-28T14:51:55Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > And this is exactly the kind of attitude that makes gun control advocates think everyone not in favor of gun control is some kind of Dirty Harry wannabee psycho. > > “Man, I can’t wait until someone breaks into my home so I can shoot them in the face…I hope it’s more than one! The only thing better than one dead guy is three dead guys!” > > Responsible gun owners don’t go around _hoping_ to use their gun, they do so as a last resort. They would be glad that they only had to shoot one person instead of three. And this is the type of paranoia that causes you gun grabbers to go ape shit and start banning stuff, just cause. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/88 "2013-02-28T14:56:04Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > In other Houston news, > > [4-year-old boy dies after shooting himself](http://www.khou.com/news/local/BREAKING-NEWS-HPD-Homicide-investigating-fatality-of-child-in-north-Houston-192861781.html). > > [Stabbing at shooting range](http://www.khou.com/news/local/HSCO-Two-people-injured-in-stabbing-at-Spring-shooting-range-192765931.html). > > [9-year-old shot in the leg near shooting ranges](http://www.khou.com/news/local/Sheriff-9-year-old-shot-in-the-leg-in-Fort-Bend-County-192758121.html). > > I like my gun news balanced. 🙂 :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/89 "2013-02-28T14:59:04Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > Classic example of why VP Joe Bidens idea of giving your wife / daughter a double barrel shotgun will scare intruders away is dead wrong. Esp if there are three or more intruders. > > Here is another video showing why women should use AR-15’s, and not shotguns > > [ItemFix - Social Video Factory](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6ee_1361829553) > > (the Ar-15 example is near the end of the video) A compelling video on why idiots shouldn’t have weapons. > [@Kearsen](#): > > And this is the type of paranoia that causes you gun grabbers to go ape shit and start banning stuff, just cause. It’s really more about crazy people shooting up schools and malls and movie theaters and killing dozens of people that makes “gun grabbers” go ape shit and start wanning to ban stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/90 "2013-02-28T15:01:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > A compelling video on why idiots shouldn’t have weapons. > > It’s really more about crazy people shooting up schools and malls and movie theaters and killing dozens of people that makes “gun grabbers” go ape shit and start wanning to ban stuff. That very isolated incident sure helped fan the fire. This posting had zero to do about it though eh, yet somehow we are talking about it now, amazing. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/91 "2013-02-28T15:06:37Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > No. Studies are bad. [We don’t want any studies.](http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1#ixzz2LwbhlCSs) Might reveal answers we don’t want to hear. Better to simply rely on anecdotes and stories. Oh, not at all, EP. We all know that studies sponsored by the government are always 100% fair and objective and don’t ever get slanted to suit somebody’s political agenda. You can always trust the government. They always have your best interests at heart. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/92 "2013-02-28T15:09:37Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Oh, not at all, EP. We all know that studies sponsored by the government are always 100% fair and objective and don’t ever get slanted to suit somebody’s political agenda. You can always trust the government. They always have your best interests at heart. 😃 It’s a funny retort but really, I find that a lot of people do not realize how Government operates in terms of information collection, aggregation and distribution (known as propaganda until Nazis gave it a bad name). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/93 "2013-02-28T17:17:34Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > That very isolated incident sure helped fan the fire. This posting had zero to do about it though eh, yet somehow we are talking about it now, amazing. As isolated as a bunch of gunmen storming your house? Both sides seem to like cherry picking their annecdotal gun stories. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/94 "2013-03-01T01:48:32Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Guilty until proven so, is that your game? Not at all. Undecided until all the facts are in, but aware that there are other possibilities. Not willing to jump in on one side or the other just because it fits my preconceptions, though I will admit that I have a preconception based in historical fact that a violent, early-evening, home invasion like that is often triggered by an unsatisfactory drug transaction. And they might not have been after the kid; it might’ve been the mom or the dad or an address mistake. We don’t know, and my original point was that “we” may never know because, while the original story was hot and sexy, as it grinds its way through the legal system it will become, well, boring and any updates will work their way further back in the newspaper, or not even published at all. I assume this is already a dead letter as far as Houston TV is considered. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/95 "2013-03-01T02:06:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Both sides seem to like cherry picking their anecdotal gun stories. It is indeed better to rely on statistics concerning who gets shot more. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/96 "2013-03-01T02:42:27Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > It is indeed better to rely on statistics concerning who gets shot more. But as you have shown PhillyGuy, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. One thing I know for certain is that without my gun I’d have been murdered. Glad I had my gun with me. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/97 "2013-03-01T02:44:46Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Not at all. Undecided until all the facts are in, but aware that there are other possibilities. Not willing to jump in on one side or the other just because it fits my preconceptions, though I will admit that I have a preconception based in historical fact that a violent, early-evening, home invasion like that is often triggered by an unsatisfactory drug transaction. And they might not have been after the kid; it might’ve been the mom or the dad or an address mistake. We don’t know, and my original point was that “we” may never know because, while the original story was hot and sexy, as it grinds its way through the legal system it will become, well, boring and any updates will work their way further back in the newspaper, or not even published at all. I assume this is already a dead letter as far as Houston TV is considered. Yeah, it’s genius how you cast your suspicion so it requires no proof at all. Good move for the anti-gun side. Though, I’ll side with the hero, since I’ve been there myself. ---
**Author:** ![SirGalahad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/71c47a/32.png) [@SirGalahad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirGalahad)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/98 "2013-03-01T03:03:47Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > But as you have shown PhillyGuy, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. One thing I know for certain is that without my gun I’d have been murdered. Glad I had my gun with me. An anecdote is not a statistic, but it’s a fact of life to the persons directly involved. Funny how important the quaint memories of famous figures loom in history, but the real life experiences of the hoi poloi are just “anectodes”, not data. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/99 "2013-03-01T03:14:05Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Just wait till the relatives of the dead robber file a multi-million $$ wrongful death lawsuit against the kid. They will have to spend lots of money to defend their son. That is why killing intruders is a better way to go. As they teach you in carry classes, every bullet you fire at someone has a lawyer attached to it. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Absolutely. We didn’t see the successful criminals in prison. We got the guys who failed at crime. Yeah the successful ones run banks and shit. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > No. Studies are bad. [We don’t want any studies.](http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1#ixzz2LwbhlCSs) Might reveal answers we don’t want to hear. Better to simply rely on anecdotes and stories. Yeah, there aren’t ANY studies out there. > [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Most home invaders are unarmed, and death or injury to the homeowner is rare. ([cite](http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt)) How’d that get past the NRA? > [@](#): > > If someone breaks into your home, I believe you have the right to defend yourself and your property. But gun owners have a responsibility to ensure they are only discharging their weapon when it is absolutely necessary. Remember, _being afraid_ is NOT the same thing as _being in danger_. Nope, you just have to reasonably believe that you are in danger. > [@filmore](#): > > Guns can be used for home security, but it should be the last line of defense. The intruders should have had to go through other active defense systems. In many of these “saved by gun” stories, it doesn’t appear there were any such systems in place. So you think that reasonable people could supplement their dog and alarm system with a gun? Can I have the gun that I want or do i have to have the gun that you want me to have? > [@filmore](#): > > If security is the main concern, then there should be more systems in place than just a gun. Yeah two guns is better. > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > See: > > [http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-31/opinions/36659667\_1\_gun-violence-gun-control-proposals-gun-rights](http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-01-31/opinions/36659667_1_gun-violence-gun-control-proposals-gun-rights) Goddam NRA falling down on the job. Start suppressing some research damn you. > [@Kable](#): > > I just printed off this study so I could read it, as it just does not sound very likely to me. In doing so I saw it has already been heavily criticized in the same Journal as such: > > Continued in letter: > [http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdfplus/10.2105/AJPH.2009.187476](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdfplus/10.2105/AJPH.2009.187476) > > I’m still going to read the article to see which is true. WTF!?!?! More studies? > [@msmith537](#): > > A compelling video on why idiots shouldn’t have weapons. A) that was pretty funny B) my wife can’t handle a shotgun but she can handle an AR-15 pretty well. > [@](#): > > It’s really more about crazy people shooting up schools and malls and movie theaters and killing dozens of people that makes “gun grabbers” go ape shit and start wanning to ban stuff. Yeah, you’re not going to stop that short of confiscating all the guns in society. Good luck with that. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > No. Studies are bad. [We don’t want any studies.](http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-nra-kills-gun-violence-research-2013-1#ixzz2LwbhlCSs) Might reveal answers we don’t want to hear. Better to simply rely on anecdotes and stories. Yeah, there aren’t ANY studies out there. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2013, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203/100 "2013-03-01T05:19:48Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Yeah, it’s genius how you cast your suspicion so it requires no proof at all. Good move for the anti-gun side. Though, I’ll side with the hero, since I’ve been there myself. _shrug_ I suspect everybody and everything, and don’t trust “proof.” I even suspect your own claim of experience in this kind of thing. Nothing personal, and I’m not calling you a liar. I’m not even naturally suspicious. It is a learned behavior, and experience and study have taught me to view everything with a wary eye. You know the saying that a conservative is a liberal who got mugged? A cynic often started as a person who expected the best from nearly all people, but got burned too often. Years ago I’d’ve been the first to slap that kid on the back and congratulate him. Now I want to know where the meth lab is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-fights-back-when-3-gunmen-storm-their-home/651203.md?page=6)