# Family Guy last night - (The Shark was not just jumped but bloody well leaped) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328 "2009-03-30T16:45:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/61 "2009-03-31T13:55:43Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > \*Point: You can be a perfectly good human as an atheist. Where I disagree is whether you get beyond that, which in my religion (Catholicism) is basically the entire point of human existence. And, unfortunately, perfectly good humans aren’t really all that good. Everyone criticizing this comment seems to have misunderstood it. Nothing **smiling bandit** said here implied that there is a distinction between Catholics and Atheists, such that only Catholics can really be good people. Quite the opposite, in fact. The statement implies there is no distinction between the two groups in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![ProfessorX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@ProfessorX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ProfessorX)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/62 "2009-03-31T14:15:36Z")
Really? I actually thought this one was much better than the last few episodes. There were some things that didn’t work, mainly Meg’s religious interest but the other stuff was funny and I did enjoy it more than past ones. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/63 "2009-03-31T14:20:16Z")
> [@satoridt](#): > > South Park is still the greatest show on television. The episode you are referring to is called Fat-butt and Pancake head and is freaking hilarious. “Fatt-butt” is obvious, but I still can’t decipher “Pancake Head,” assuming it refers to Affleck… something to do with make-up? His alleged hairpiece? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/64 "2009-03-31T15:13:04Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Everyone criticizing this comment seems to have misunderstood it. Nothing **smiling bandit** said here implied that there is a distinction between Catholics and Atheists, such that only Catholics can really be good people. Quite the opposite, in fact. The statement implies there is no distinction between the two groups in this regard. The statement implies that Catholics can “get beyond that” (which I’m assuming means getting “saved”) and that atheists can’t. That’s a value judgement. Not only that, it implies that belief is a choice, and that salvation is therefore contingent on a non-volitional condition. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/65 "2009-03-31T15:41:44Z")
I’d like to apologize to **smiling bandit** for snapping at him like I did. I still strongly disagree with your beliefs but I was out of line. I’m sorry. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/66 "2009-03-31T18:15:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The statement implies that Catholics can “get beyond that” (which I’m assuming means getting “saved”) and that atheists can’t. That’s a value judgement. Not only that, it implies that belief is a choice, and that salvation is therefore contingent on a non-volitional condition. No, it’s about getting beyond Humanity without becoming inhuman. Which, for the record, is not impossible for anyone, but you need to believe in something beyond Humanity, and believe that Christianity, and Catholicism in particular, is the most accurate description of it thus far. We would tend to talk about original Sin, and the notion that Fallen Man cannot, on his or her own power, come very close to true purity and sanctity. Outside of that, Stoic philosophy, Therevada Buddhism, and Taoism are probably as good as you can get. > [@Xan](#): > > I’d like to apologize to smiling bandit for snapping at him like I did. I still strongly disagree with your beliefs but I was out of line. I’m sorry. Don’t worry about it. You’re fine. ---
**Author:** ![TooSchoolforCool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tooschoolforcool/32/19621_2.png) [@TooSchoolforCool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TooSchoolforCool)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/67 "2009-03-31T20:29:38Z")
> [@quixotic78](#): > > There was an episode of _South Park_ a few years ago where Mr. Garrison gets a sex change operation. A number of people on this board decided that SP had finally gone too far. All the previous lampooning of gays, Catholics, midgets, Democrats, Republicans, etc. were just fine, but this time, woah boy, Messrs. Parker and Stone had really done it! > > Need I even mention that the person leading this charge was transgendered? To be fair, South Park has a lot more direct moralizing than Family Guy, which tends totally undercut any message it’s making by making it absurd, and in which the characters are all sort of a mess in one way or another rather than on SP where Stan and Kyle are basically almost always the voice of moralizing reason. I mean, even in this episode, Brian’s motivation was basically to get booze because he’s an unreformed alcoholic: not exactly a heroic picture of anyone. The South Park sex change operation pretty clearly and openly had the makers of the show looking into the audience and saying “sex changes are phony and fake and stupid” which is a pretty solid position on a controversial issue. The examples were played for laughs, but nothing about the message was. So people argued back with the message. I think that’s legitimate, just as it’s legitimate for sb to argue back with Brian. But it’s still just not at all clear to me that Brian was really the voice of perfect reason. His speech about something greater than religion was undercut by the fact that something greater was Rob Lowe’s lampshade. And while trite, was not exactly “all religion is bad” either: it was answering the question of where answers come from if there isn’t a god. sb doesn’t want to hear that possibility, but I don’t see quite what’s so shocking or virulently anti-religious with someone expressing it. The “if there’s a God why are you so ugly” thing was as much a parody of theodicy as it was serious. And note that when he told the family that he was an atheist, it wasn’t “I’m an atheist, and you’re all morons” it was just one family member surprised that others didn’t know that aspect of his identity: he seemed to accept just fine in that case that everyone else was religious. In short, there was plenty there to undercut sb’s belief that it was all a straightforward “you should be an atheist” message. Still mostly sucked though. ---
**Author:** ![nivlac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3bc359/32.png) [@nivlac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nivlac)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/68 "2009-03-31T22:18:04Z")
I tuned in to see the Star Trek Next Gen characters working together again. And I wasn’t disappointed. Funny, funny scenes. Totally hilarious to me. I had my hopes up when Kirk Cameron came on, but was disappointed they didn’t skewer him more than they did. The atheism subplot wasn’t particularly original and totally went down the crapper with the Rob Lowe/Adam West scene. But overall, I’d watch this episode again, and I did! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/69 "2009-04-01T04:11:28Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > But it’s still just not at all clear to me that Brian was really the voice of perfect reason. His speech about something greater than religion was undercut by the fact that something greater was Rob Lowe’s lampshade. And while trite, was not exactly “all religion is bad” either: it was answering the question of where answers come from if there isn’t a god. sb doesn’t want to hear that possibility, but I don’t see quite what’s so shocking or virulently anti-religious with someone expressing it. The “if there’s a God why are you so ugly” thing was as much a parody of theodicy as it was serious. And note that when he told the family that he was an atheist, it wasn’t “I’m an atheist, and you’re all morons” it was just one family member surprised that others didn’t know that aspect of his identity: he seemed to accept just fine in that case that everyone else was religious. In short, there was plenty there to undercut sb’s belief that it was all a straightforward “you should be an atheist” message. Adam West’s lampshade. Rob Lowe isn’t worthy to straighten Adam West’s Batman cape. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/70 "2009-04-01T08:39:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yeah, I dropped out of X-Files after season 5 or so. I haven’t seen the episode you quoted, but it must have happened after the series turned to crap. I don’t think that really counts - once writers run out of ideas, they’ll do _anything_. It was the fourth episode of season one. But even if you dropped out after the series turned to crap in its third episode, you may have noticed that Mulder was a character who was ready to believe in just about anything. To assume that he was an atheist without any evidence of that in the show seems a little odd. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I tend to assume that all TV characters who never talk about their religious beliefs - which is most of them - are atheists or agnostics. So what you presented as a list of atheist characters is actually a list of characters that you personally do not recall discussing their religion? If their beliefs are never referenced on the shows, than their beliefs are undefined. We’re talking about fictional characters, so what you see and here is the extent of their reality. > [@](#): > > Life isn’t the SDMB. Most atheists never talk about religion, because it doesn’t interest them. But somehow you know they’re atheists. Maybe some people regard their religion as a private matter. Maybe some simply don’t have a religion (and no, that’s not the same as being atheist or agnostic). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/71 "2009-04-01T09:29:33Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > It was the fourth episode of season one. But even if you dropped out after the series turned to crap in its third episode, you may have noticed that Mulder was a character who was ready to believe in just about anything. To assume that he was an atheist without any evidence of that in the show seems a little odd. > > So what you presented as a list of atheist characters is actually a list of characters that you personally do not recall discussing their religion? If their beliefs are never referenced on the shows, than their beliefs are undefined. We’re talking about fictional characters, so what you see and here is the extent of their reality. But somehow you know they’re atheists. Maybe some people regard their religion as a private matter. Maybe some simply don’t have a religion (and no, that’s not the same as being atheist or agnostic). OK. Good points. However, just because a TV character doesn’t openly claim to be atheist, that doesn’t necessarily mean he isn’t one. Absence of proof of absence is not proof of presence. Let’s make the following assumption: the chance a certain TV character is an atheist is equal to the chance someone of a similar background in real life is an atheist. For instance, if, say, 25% of all MDs and nurses working in Chicago hospitals today are atheists (not that far-fetched an assumption, considering their level of education and the nature of their profession), one might assume that 25% of the characters on the TV show ER are also atheists. My point is that nothing we’ve seen on the show has contradicted this assumption. Furthermore, many TV shows depict populations with traditionally high levels of atheism (doctors, big city cops, people in the arts and media, yuppies) from less religious parts of the country (the coasts). The fact that many of these characters never speak of religious beliefs is consistent with reality - namely, that they have none. ---
**Author:** ![singular1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ba9def/32.png) [@singular1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/singular1)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/72 "2009-04-01T11:01:03Z")
> [@TooSchoolforCool](#): > > So people argued back with the message. I think that’s legitimate, just as it’s legitimate for sb to argue back with Brian. \ sb doesn’t want to hear that possibility, but I don’t see quite what’s so shocking or virulently anti-religious with someone expressing it. \In short, there was plenty there to undercut sb’s belief that it was all a straightforward “you should be an atheist” message. Who or what is sb? ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/73 "2009-04-01T11:23:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Adam West’s lampshade. Rob Lowe isn’t worthy to straighten Adam West’s Batman cape. I like to think Adam and Rob went to Pottery Barn and picked out the lamp together. Each paid half. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/74 "2009-04-01T15:02:16Z")
I thought it was a fantastic episode. It was nice to see Whil Wheaton included. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/75 "2009-04-01T15:28:12Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > I thought it was a fantastic episode. It was nice to see Whil Wheaton included. You mean Hwil Hweaton? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/76 "2009-04-01T15:43:37Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > You mean Hwil Hweaton? [“Shut Up, Wil!”](http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/12/03/star-trek-the-next-generation-datalore/) That’s couldn’t have been accidental. While the whole thing I linked to is hilarious, for those who don’t want to bother with the whole thing, here’s an excerpt: > [@Wil Wheaton](#): > > “Sir,” he says, “I know this may finish me, but --” > > And Picard, the captain who recognized Wesley’s intellect and promoted him to acting ensign, responds with three words that follow me to this day: “Shut up, Wesley!” > > Trekkies around the country gasp in delight as an episode that was veering into ‘The Last Outpost’ territory suddenly has redeeming value. Basement printing presses, silk screens, and button-makers go into over drive as entrepreneurial fans do what they do best. The convention market is flooded with the resulting merchandise, and children are still attending college today from the sales. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![satoridt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@satoridt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/satoridt)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/77 "2009-04-01T16:14:49Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > “Fatt-butt” is obvious, but I still can’t decipher “Pancake Head,” assuming it refers to Affleck… something to do with make-up? His alleged hairpiece? Apparently Ben Affleck has an extremely flat face. Which is why nobody ever shows him in profile. (according to matt and trey) ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/78 "2009-04-02T02:33:20Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > You mean Hwil Hweaton? Notice how I spelled his first name. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/79 "2009-04-02T04:21:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The statement implies that Catholics can “get beyond that” (which I’m assuming means getting “saved”) and that atheists can’t. That’s a value judgement. Not only that, it implies that belief is a choice, and that salvation is therefore contingent on a non-volitional condition. Sorry, bro, but BY DEFINITION, mackerel slappers are saved. Maybe not initially, what with Purgatory purging us–er–them of their sins, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. How do you expect people to tolerate Purgatory, which is just like Hell but without the eternal damnation? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2009, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328/80 "2009-04-02T04:28:13Z")
> [@singular1](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by **TooSchoolforCool** > > > > So people argued back with the message. I think that’s legitimate, just as it’s legitimate for sb to argue back with Brian. \ sb doesn’t want to hear that possibility, but I don’t see quite what’s so shocking or virulently anti-religious with someone expressing it. \In short, there was plenty there to undercut sb’s belief that it was all a straightforward “you should be an atheist” message. > > Who or what is sb? I think he’s referring to **smiling bandit** , our esteemed OP. And **dropzone** , I think it’s mackerel _snappers_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-guy-last-night-the-shark-was-not-just-jumped-but-bloody-well-leaped/491328.md?page=5)