I love how anti-abortion groups talk about how adoption is “the right choice.” Too bad Michele Launders believed them.
Well, I don’t know about “we”, but speaking for myself, I’m a grownup, I have sex where, when, and with whom I like, and anyone who tells me to “rein it in” can shove their “suggestion” up their no doubt Cameronesquely tight ass.
Ah-the old George Carlin routine comes to mind:
“women still need a note to get laid.” (re prescriptions).
My solution? make BC OTC! (over the counter).
Problem solved (for many-I draw the line at “do it yourself IUD insertion kits”).
I do wish people would stop worrying themselves sick about female sexuality. If BC is so “demeaning” to women-let’s get the boys into the action! Let’s require men to carry condoms at all time, like your driver’s license. Too young to drive-clip the condom to your school ID. Home schooled? Every home schooled household must display a “condoms used here” sign in the window.
That should do it.
Are you really writing off adoption because of one case? Pro-choice means pro-any of the choices, right?
I think it’s more that the pro-birth contingent is trying to sell itself as supporting the woman to have A choice: have the baby and keep it or have the baby and give it up for adoption.
I can’t speak for Annie --but I take her point to be that that single choice can be a false one or a not so great one. And if you are for one choice, why not be for all the choices?
Adoption is a viable option for some women. But only for some. Only giving that as a choice limits women in their control over their body.
(bolding mine)
I think the sentence I bolded is a large part of it. I don’t agree with it them about it, but it could be that what they’re looking at is the idea that women aren’t valued as much if they can’t be like guys. It does seem, sometimes, as if women have to become more like men to have more worth in society, they have to almost deny their ability to bear children to get anywhere or to have anybody respect them. I know that’s an extreme view, but so many of the advances women have achieved seem sometimes to be predicated on their becoming more like the men around them. Maybe part of the point of the statement in question is that it would be nice if women could be just as valuable if they didn’t have to deny part of themselves.
I know I didn’t express that very well, but it’s something I’ve thought for a long time. I don’t think we will have “arrived” until women get the same respect and carry the same value and weight in society, even if they aren’t “like the guys”.
This probably counts as a hijack, so feel free to let the thread just swirl right past it. I likely won’t be able to get back here very soon anyway. It’s going to be a long weekend at work.
Which part of myself am I denying if I refuse to have children, though? I don’t see it as denying any part of myself. I see it as denying some awful role someone else thinks I should be forced into.
[QUOTE=thirdwarning It does seem, sometimes, as if women have to become more like men to have more worth in society, they have to almost deny their ability to bear children to get anywhere or to have anybody respect them. [/QUOTE]
Choosing to use birth control isn’t “denying your ability to bear children”. It’s **controlling ** your ability to bear children.
After all, not pissing your pants isn’t *denying * your ability to urinate. And if you don’t control *that * ability, you’re not going far in life either.
No, I’m pointing out that the anti-adoption forces are so quick to talk about how wonderful adoption is and how horrible abortion is, without pointing out that the opposite can be true (adoption can lead to the death of your child, abortion can save your life). They try to portray having the child and giving it up as such a great thing, and “killing” your child as horrible. It simply isn’t that black & white.
Stupid coding. :smack:
Choosing to use birth control isn’t “denying your ability to bear children”. It’s **controlling ** your ability to bear children.
After all, not pissing your pants isn’t *denying * your ability to urinate. And if you don’t control *that * ability, you’re not going far in life either.
Yeah, yeah, yeah… I’m also a grownup, and I also have sex where, when , and with whom I like. But I’m secure enough and mature enough that I don’t have to explode with anger and vitriol any time someone else expresses the idea that restraint and self control can be a good thing.
The fact is we have an office of family planning at HHS. If you don’t want anyone telling you about family planning, you should advocate abolishing the office. Or are you saying they can tell you about family planning as long as they’re telling you to do exactly what you already want to do? Step back from the ledge; no one is sending jackbooted thugs into your bedroom to take away your contraceptives.
Someone else advocating a more modest, more conservative viewpoint than my own on sex (or anything else) doesn’t automatically make me think the crusades are on again and I need to take up arms. And it shouldn’t provoke obtuse comments about the tightness of one’s ass.
(Whoops, I just suggested that someone rein in their rhetoric. Oh my god! How dare I say such a thing! Someone investigate what organizations I might have belonged to in the past!)
When people who believe contraceptives are wrong are put into positions of power over contraceptive availability and education, I worry. Sue me.
The term family planning has long been a euphemism for contraception.
You cannot “plan” a family without control over conception. Without family planning, random pregnancies either occur or not. Now, there is the chance that once off contraception, no conception occurs-but that’s another thread.
How does one have family planning without contraception? and do I really want to know this nutjob’s answer? Does he have to be confirmed or reviewed or approved or something by Congress, please?
Your idea of “exploding with anger” is substantially different than mine. Apparently my idea of “kindly mind your own business” is substantially different than yours.
Not so far. But that might be because every time they suggest they’d like to, I scream bloody blue murder.
See above. And *then * see Ferris Bueller’s Day Off.
I think your ability to identify irony 50% of the time is adorable!
'Cause, you know, people wouldn’t fuck if they didn’t have access to birth control. See, back in the Good Old Days, women* never *had sex outside of wedlock because they knew they’d get pregnant. (You remember the Good Old Days, right? When kids were polite, politicians were honest and prices were low?) Then, along came birth control and suddenly women could be as slutty as men. Just ain’t right.
That’s why we need to keep condoms and sex ed out of schools: the kids wouldn’t even think of fucking unless the subject came up in the classroom.
Sounds like the same rubbish as the people that said feminism is all about becoming a lesbian and having abortions. I must admit that the concept that lesbians would be the main clientele for abortions mystifies me a tad.
If a lesbian becomes pregnant by rape, the “pro-life, pro-family” cartel would force her to have the child (abortion is immoral) and give it up for adoption (homosexuals should not raise children). Could anything be more fucked up?
I think this is Bush’s new Social Security plan
Because all the extra babies will eventually pay FICA.
Brian
(only half joking, IIRC France is encouraging babies for the same reason)
In theory? One only has vaginal sex when one wishes to bring about conception. or, a couple engages in what’s called “natural family planning”, which is a modern version of the old “rhythm method”, and involves keeping track of the woman’s menstral cycle, and timing sexual activity to either maximize or minimize the chance of conception.
It’s a bit more complicated than that. There are several different factors involved in fertility, many of which can be measured fairly easily, leading to a very reliable method of timing sex. Tracking that menstrual cycle by itself does not that much, as the cycle itself can change. The “rhythm method” really bears very little resemblance to this other than using data from the woman’s body.