# family terminology, need help
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [October 5, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531 "2001-10-05T06:23:45Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@MagicalSilverKey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicalSilverKey)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/1 "2001-10-05T06:23:45Z")
I will try to make this as simple as possible:
My maternal grandmother’s first child was from her first marriage. His name is Marson. She had no other children from her first marriage.
My maternal grandmother had three more children during her second marriage. This includes my mother (youngest), her sister (middle), and one brother (eldest).
I have always known Marson as “Uncle Marson” but is he really my uncle?? Because he is my mother’s half-brother, what does that _ **really** _ make him to me? a “half-uncle?” Uncle once removed? Or is there no “special title” for such an instance?
I looked at some family terminology “dictionary” pages on the web, but nothing defines something such as I have described above.
---
### Author:  [@saudade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saudade)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/2 "2001-10-05T06:38:57Z")
“Half-uncle” is the proper term.
“Once removed” may be used because he is of a different generation…for example your mother’s first cousin is your “first cousin once removed”.
Maybe in some culture like Japanese, where you have very specific names for relatives - there may ne a name, but we are stuck with “halves” and “removed”.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/3 "2001-10-05T07:14:05Z")
I suppose you could call him “half uncle.” My Mom had an older half-brother whose mother died, leaving my grandfather to marry my mother’s mother. We never thought of him as “half” anything, just as Uncle Lou.
It would not occur to me to use “removed” as I always associate that exclusively with cousins.
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### Author:  [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/4 "2001-10-05T07:56:52Z")
Sigh, yeah this was too easy and I wasn’t able to get into it. Half would go in front of all relations where your ancestor and their ancestor were half-siblings. You can have not only half-uncles but half-cousins, half-4th cousins twice removed. I think I’ll have some fun and overkill this answer.
Let’s look at this family
```auto
Chris
| ____________________
| |
Jack Phil
| |
Arthur Frank
| |
William Kevin
| |
Michael Edward
| |
John Scott
| |
Carl James
```
Jack and Phil are brothers
Arthur and Frank are cousins or mor properly 1st cousins
William and Kevin are 2nd cousins
Michael and Edward are 3rd cousins
John and Scott are 4th cousins
Carl and James are 5th cousins.
Now let’s look at John. We’ll go from John and James to John and Chris. Notice all relationships go both ways. If somebody is your 4th cousin once removed then you’re his 4th cousin once removed.
John and James are 3rd cousins once removed
John and Scott are 4th cousins
John and Edward are 3rd cousins once removed
John and Kevin are 2nd cousins twice removed
John and Frank are 1st cousins thrice removed
John and Phil are no longer cousins. Phil is John’s 2nd great grand uncle. And John is Phil’s 2nd great grand nephew.
John and Chris. Chris is John’s 3rd great grandfather and John is Chris’ 3rd great grandson.
Now if Jack and Phil were half brothers then you would put Half in front of all of those relationships, except for the one between Jack and Chris.
---
### Author:  [@Dijon\_Warlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dijon_Warlock)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/5 "2001-10-05T08:02:03Z")
[This might help](http://www.kiva.net/~markh/cousin.html)
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### Author:  [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/6 "2001-10-05T13:34:40Z")
Here is a [great chart](http://www.wccox.com/images/cox.gif) showing relationships.
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### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/7 "2001-10-05T13:42:34Z")
Half-uncle would be closest.
Half-Uncle Once Removed would be redundant - all uncles are of a different generation, and it is generally denoted by the use of the word “great”. Mother’s brother (or half brother) is plain uncle, Mother’s Uncle is Great Uncle (or Grand Uncle if you prefer), Mother’s Mother’s Uncle is Great Great Uncle, etc.
Cousins are removed, Uncles are Great or Grand.
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### Author:  [@MagicalSilverKey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicalSilverKey)
#### Post date: [October 5, 2001, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/8 "2001-10-05T16:41:04Z")
Thanks everyone. I had a feeling it would be “half-uncle” but wanted to make sure.
Not only is my half-uncle, just a half-uncle, but he has also severed nearly all ties, socially speaking, with the remaining family. It’s been that way for years. So, even though he, technically, should be included in my family tree, I don’t really mentally count him as a relative anymore.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2001, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/9 "2001-10-06T00:20:11Z")
Good job, **Osiris** , except that in your diagram, John and James are 4th cousins once removed, not 3rd. Unless, of course, there’s something going on on the other sides of those families, like with Frodo and Bilbo (“second _and_ third cousins, as they say, once removed either way”).
You could also modify relationships with “step”, if any of the connecting links are by marriage rather than blood, but that’s a bit more ambiguous than “half”, since it isn’t clear where the “step” is, or even how many there are.
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### Author:  [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2001, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/10 "2001-10-06T00:54:43Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Chronos \*
> **Good job, Osiris, except that in your diagram, John and James are 4th cousins once removed, not 3rd. Unless, of course, there’s something going on on the other sides of those families, like with Frodo and Bilbo (“second _and_ third cousins, as they say, once removed either way”).**
Sigh, went to so much work too. Previewed several times too but that’s right.
---
### Author:  [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)
#### Post date: [October 6, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-terminology-need-help/85531/11 "2001-10-06T03:39:48Z")
Key:
|| - First marriage
== - Second marriage
| or - Children
```auto
Steve, Michelle, AWB
|
|
Gene === Lois
|| ||
Laurel, Paul ---- || || ---- Kris
|| ||
Margie === Bill
|
|
Aleta
```
Laurel and Paul are my half-siblings because we share a father. Kris is my half-sister because we share a mother. All three of them have the same half-sister, Aleta, even though they are not related directly. Similarly, Aleta is not related to me or my full siblings.
Half-jokingly, I call her my quarter-sister. And for ease of explanations, we all call each other brothers and sisters without the “half-” or “quarter-”. All our kids are cousins, even those that aren’t related. (19 at last count.)