# "Family values" group honors deadbeat dad congresscritter **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079 "2011-11-06T18:07:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/21 "2011-11-07T15:57:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But in reading the comments of almost every single poster above, it seems to be a given that he does, in fact, owe the money. Only **Simplicio** points out that the issue is unsettled. > > What did the rest of you rely upon in reaching your conclusions? I relied on the fact that the OP called him a “deadbeat dad”. I’ve got no idea if he actually owes the money or not. I’m saying that, even if we assume, _arguendo_, that that’s true, the actions of the FRC in this case aren’t particularly inappropriate or hypocritical (in spite of the fact that I believe that most of the stuff the FRC stands for is pretty despicable, as are a lot of their tactics.). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/22 "2011-11-07T16:01:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why wouldn’t you guess that he wouldn’t deny he owes child support unless he had some agreement with her that he didn’t? > > In other words, you haven’t seen any papers; no news story I’m aware of his verified their existence, and yet you still infer they exist and that their contents, if known, shore up her position and not his. From \*\*E-Sabbath’s \*\*link. > [@](#): > > Laura Walsh has gone into court on numerous occasions since filing for divorce in 2002, seeking court orders to have her ex-husband meet his **court-ordered child-support obligations.** ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/23 "2011-11-07T16:12:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So it’s certain that Joe Walsh’s ex-wife is telling the truth, and that Joe Walsh is lying? > > Why is that, exactly? > > I mean, she may well be telling the truth - I don’t know her or know any of the issues involved. But I don’t see any reason to automatically credit her version over his, any more than I see any reason to credit his version over hers. > > But in reading the comments of almost every single poster above, it seems to be a given that he does, in fact, owe the money. Only **Simplicio** points out that the issue is unsettled. > > What did the rest of you rely upon in reaching your conclusions? Does it _matter?_ This is not a singular event. We’re not basing this on a single event, but rather a massive, overarching trend. I mean, for fuck’s sake, look at the difference! Clinton got a blowjob and got fired because of it. Wiener showed off a _somewhat_ candid photo (seriously, that shit was borderline safe for work) and lost his job. Herman Cain was charged with molestation of more than one woman at his previous workplace and this isn’t the end of his political career. Newt Gingrich has had 5 wives and still has the “pro-family, christian values” crowd on his side. Tom DeLay oversaw the deregulation of businesses (not to mention spoke up their virtues) in Saipan that _forced (essentially unwilling) prostitutes who got pregnant to get abortions_ and that wasn’t the end of his career. The republican party is absolutely fucking RIPE with shit like this, and for some reason they still get to claim to be the “Christian Family Values” party? What the fuck?! ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/24 "2011-11-07T16:15:58Z")
Clinton got fired because of a blow-job? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/25 "2011-11-07T16:16:15Z")
Why do I get the feeling that, had the Dope been around back when certain allegations were going on about President Clinton and a certain intern, **Bricker** would not have been diving into threads started by people like Scylla or Shodan or magellan01 and asking them why they were so sure Clinton was guilty of this accusation, because he’d surely not been tried yet? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/26 "2011-11-07T16:23:13Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Why do I get the feeling that, had the Dope been around back when certain allegations were going on about President Clinton and a certain intern, **Bricker** would not have been diving into threads started by people like Scylla or Shodan or magellan01 and asking them why they were so sure Clinton was guilty of this accusation, because he’d surely not been tried yet? Why do I get the feeling that one of the stupidest things people do around here is criticize some for something they think he might have done under different circumstances? And **Bricker** , pain-in-the-ass that he is being here, has done precisely what you claim he wouldn’t do in specific instances already. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/27 "2011-11-07T16:26:32Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Why do I get the feeling that, had the Dope been around back when certain allegations were going on about President Clinton and a certain intern, **Bricker** would not have been diving into threads started by people like Scylla or Shodan or magellan01 and asking them why they were so sure Clinton was guilty of this accusation, because he’d surely not been tried yet? You know, a few months ago, I had a dream where, in the dream, I got in a fight with my mom, and then when I woke up, I was pissed at her for some of the stuff that the dream her had said, which, of course, was really illogical of me. My point in telling this story is that I don’t think it’s fair to criticize the real **Bricker** because his actions are inconsistent with what you think your hypothetical Bricker would have done in a scenario you invented, any more than it was fair of me to be upset with my mom for the stuff that my dream mom said in my dream. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/28 "2011-11-07T16:31:57Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > From \*\*E-Sabbath’s \*\*link. > > > [@](#): > > > > Laura Walsh has gone into court on numerous occasions since filing for divorce in 2002, seeking court orders to have her ex-husband meet his court-ordered child-support obligations. Yet the next line isn’t, “And each time, the court has issued an order confirming her requests.” See what I mean? What I haven’t seen yet is any court anywhere actually ordering him to pay this. Even the current order is for him to show why he shouldn’t pay, not ordering him to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/29 "2011-11-07T16:33:24Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Why do I get the feeling that, had the Dope been around back when certain allegations were going on about President Clinton and a certain intern, **Bricker** would not have been diving into threads started by people like Scylla or Shodan or magellan01 and asking them why they were so sure Clinton was guilty of this accusation, because he’d surely not been tried yet? You’re mistaken. I can point to plenty of times I’ve done similar things in support of other Democrats since the board has existed. So I have no idea why you get that feeling. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/30 "2011-11-07T16:33:58Z")
**Bricker** , why is it reasonably for a “Family values” group to support _ **anyone** _ who has had a divorce, didn’t keep the kids, and doesn’t pay child support? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/31 "2011-11-07T16:39:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Why do I get the feeling that one of the stupidest things people do around here is criticize some for something they think he might have done under different circumstances? And **Bricker** , pain-in-the-ass that he is being here, has done precisely what you claim he wouldn’t do in specific instances already. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > You know, a few months ago, I had a dream where, in the dream, I got in a fight with my mom, and then when I woke up, I was pissed at her for some of the stuff that the dream her had said, which, of course, was really illogical of me. > > My point in telling this story is that I don’t think it’s fair to criticize the real **Bricker** because his actions are inconsistent with what you think your hypothetical Bricker would have done in a scenario you invented, any more than it was fair of me to be upset with my mom for the stuff that my dream mom said in my dream. > [@Bricker](#): > > You’re mistaken. I can point to plenty of times I’ve done similar things in support of other Democrats since the board has existed. > > So I have no idea why you get that feeling. I’ll admit that it may be my perception that’s off here. It’s possible that I don’t NOTICE when **Bricker** is doing this with someone with whom I agree because…well, I agree with them so it’s obviously right and good that they get defended, but that he does do it. My apologies, **Bricker**. I retract that post. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/32 "2011-11-07T16:41:14Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > **Bricker** , why is it reasonably for a “Family values” group to support _ **anyone** _ who has had a divorce, didn’t keep the kids, and doesn’t pay child support? Does the Family Values group advocate making divorce illegal, requiring both parents to keep the kids (logically impossible, btw)\*, and requiring child support in all cases? \*and in this particular case, it appears they have joint custody. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/33 "2011-11-07T16:41:39Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Does it _matter?_ This is not a singular event. We’re not basing this on a single event, but rather a massive, overarching trend. I mean, for fuck’s sake, look at the difference! Clinton got a blowjob and got fired because of it. Wiener showed off a _somewhat_ candid photo (seriously, that shit was borderline safe for work) and lost his job. Herman Cain was charged with molestation of more than one woman at his previous workplace and this isn’t the end of his political career. Newt Gingrich has had 5 wives and still has the “pro-family, christian values” crowd on his side. Tom DeLay oversaw the deregulation of businesses (not to mention spoke up their virtues) in Saipan that _forced (essentially unwilling) prostitutes who got pregnant to get abortions_ and that wasn’t the end of his career. The republican party is absolutely fucking RIPE with shit like this, and for some reason they still get to claim to be the “Christian Family Values” party? What the fuck?! That’s a more overarching complaint, I agree. I don’t really have much to say about the trend, although I might take issue with some of the specifics you mention. In fact, that’s what I’m doing here: taking issue with the specifics you mention. Your message here sort of seems to say that it doesn’t matter if Walsh really owes the money or not, because of all the other bad stuff other Republicans do. > [@Mark Twain](#): > > [Tom Sawyer] tried to steal sugar under his aunt’s very nose, and got his knuckles rapped for it. He said: > > “Aunt, you don’t whack Sid when he takes it.” > > “Well, Sid don’t torment a body the way you do. You’d be always into that sugar if I warn’t watching you.” > > Presently she stepped into the kitchen, and Sid, happy in his immunity, reached for the sugar-bowl–a sort of glorying over Tom which was wellnigh unbearable. But Sid’s fingers slipped and the bowl dropped and broke. Tom was in ecstasies. In such ecstasies that he even controlled his tongue and was silent. He said to himself that he would not speak a word, even when his aunt came in, but would sit perfectly still till she asked who did the mischief; and then he would tell, and there would be nothing so good in the world as to see that pet model “catch it.” He was so brimful of exultation that he could hardly hold himself when the old lady came back and stood above the wreck discharging lightnings of wrath from over her spectacles. He said to himself, “Now it’s coming!” And the next instant he was sprawling on the floor! The potent palm was uplifted to strike again when Tom cried out: > > “Hold on, now, what 'er you belting ME for?–Sid broke it!” > > Aunt Polly paused, perplexed, and Tom looked for healing pity. But when she got her tongue again, she only said: > > “Umf! Well, you didn’t get a lick amiss, I reckon. You been into some other audacious mischief when I wasn’t around, like enough.” This is the Aunt Polly System – who actually did what is manifestly unimportant. It doesn’t matter if Walsh is actually guilty or not… he’s a Republican, and they been into some other audacious mischief. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/34 "2011-11-07T16:43:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’ll admit that it may be my perception that’s off here. It’s possible that I don’t NOTICE when **Bricker** is doing this with someone with whom I agree because…well, I agree with them so it’s obviously right and good that they get defended, but that he does do it. My apologies, **Bricker**. I retract that post. No problem – thanks for taking a second look at the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/35 "2011-11-07T16:48:49Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > **Bricker** , why is it reasonably for a “Family values” group to support _ **anyone** _ who has had a divorce, didn’t keep the kids, and doesn’t pay child support? I don’t know, and part of the reason I don’t know is that there seems to be a sort of amorphous definition of “Family Values” in play here. I guess I’d want to know what types of things this particular group believes and what sorts of policies they urge government to adopt. For example, they may have no problem with divorce, or they may accept divorce after some period of counselling, prayer, and/or time period separated. If so, and if Walsh followed whatever guidelines they have, then I don’t see any problem with them supporting him on that basis. Similarly, after a divorce, presumably there’s some sort of custody arrangement. If he reached such an arrangement with his ex-wife, then proesumably this group wouldn’t have any principled basis to object. I suppose the group could espouse the position that divorce is never acceptable, in which case I’d agree that their support of him seems a bit self-serving. But I don’t know the first thing about this group, and so I really can’t reach any of those conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/36 "2011-11-07T17:01:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Does the Family Values group advocate making divorce illegal, requiring both parents to keep the kids (logically impossible, btw)\*, and requiring child support in all cases? > > \*and in this particular case, it appears they have joint custody. Of course, this is _my point_. “Family Values” is a term like “Pro-Life”: it usually has nothing to do with what most people would define under the term, is often _diametrically opposed_ to goals that most people would classify under the term, and is really just a euphemism for what the movement really means (Anti-Abortion, Anti-gay). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/37 "2011-11-07T17:01:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I’m not defending him – I have no idea if he owes money, or if he does how much of it he owes. > > I’m just wondering why almost everyone else in this thread acts like they already know. > > I’m not defending him; I have no idea if he’s worth defending yet. > > I’m wondewring why you’re attacking him, since I doubt you know any more about it than I do. Ahhhh not defending. Just asking questions. After all, how do we even know that this “Joe Walsh” person even exists at all? Has anybody here actually seen him in person? (Well, I have during the Hotel California tour) And how do we really know that (if he does exist) he even has any children? Maybe this person taking him to court is a delusional stalker! Hmmmmm? Ever thought of that? You’re quite the deep, critical thinker when it comes to folks like this Congressman aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/38 "2011-11-07T17:07:20Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Of course, this is _my point_. “Family Values” is a term like “Pro-Life”: it usually has nothing to do with what most people would define under the term, is often _diametrically opposed_ to goals that most people would classify under the term, and is really just a euphemism for what the movement really means (Anti-Abortion, Anti-gay). You asked very specific questions to which I gave answers. I have no idea how this follow-on post is supposed to fit into that discussion. Do I take it you don’t generally like Family Values groups? Well, neither do I. But I don’t go around playing stupid “gotcha” games with them, and then act all pissy when someone points out how stupid that particular game is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/39 "2011-11-07T17:08:55Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ahhhh not defending. Just asking questions. “Just asking questions” has a specific meaning on this MB, namely “trolling”. I can’t see that what **Bricker** is doing falls into that category. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079/40 "2011-11-07T17:21:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You asked very specific questions to which I gave answers. I have no idea how this follow-on post is supposed to fit into that discussion. > > Do I take it you don’t generally like Family Values groups? Well, neither do I. But I don’t go around playing stupid “gotcha” games with them, and then act all pissy when someone points out how stupid that particular game is. I wasn’t playing gotcha games, and I wasn’t trying to refute or argue against anything you said. Sorry if it came across that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-group-honors-deadbeat-dad-congresscritter/602079.md?page=3)