# Family-values Pub senator caught up in DC Madam scandal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 11, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385 "2007-07-11T17:07:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/81 "2007-07-12T17:15:02Z")
[QUOTE=Hung Mung] The lady was uglier than homemade soap. [/QUOTE] That’s a great metaphor. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/82 "2007-07-12T17:24:17Z")
[QUOTE=Hung Mung] Have you _seen_ [Eleanor Roosevelt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Eleanor_Roosevelt_at_United_Nations.gif)? The lady was uglier than homemade soap. I’d crawl on bum legs to get away from her, too. [/QUOTE] Sure she was less attractive when she was older and had jowls, but she wasn’t bad looking when she was younger. [Exhibit A](http://supercat.ucsd.edu/~sunspot/history/eleanor.jpg) [Exhibit B](http://z.about.com/d/womenshistory/1/7/w/I/eleanor_roosevelt2.jpg). And if she was around now she’d probably be more careful with her image - almost anyone can look great if they dress properly and have great hair/makeup. If you’d crawl to get away from her, then you’d probably be crawling to get away from probably half of the female population if you saw them without makeup on and dressed all frumpy. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/83 "2007-07-12T17:31:10Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Do you have any indication that Vitter was talking about adultery, instead of the offenses for which Clinton was impeached? I know, I know - BushliedaboutIraqClintonwasimpeachedforablowjobRepublicansbadDemocratsgoodblahdeblahIOKIADDI. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] A Republican politician who thinks lying is a bigger moral sin than adultery? You crack me up. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/84 "2007-07-12T17:31:15Z")
Vitters obviously has a strong desire to help women business owners, as evidenced by the following link on his Senate website: [http://vitter.senate.gov/?module=constituents/womenandsmallbusiness](http://vitter.senate.gov/?module=constituents/womenandsmallbusiness). Unfortunately, he failed to provide a link to Frederick’s of Hollywood, Adam & Eve, or any number of condom manufacturers. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/85 "2007-07-12T17:34:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How would that constitute “payback”? [/QUOTE] For a very long time Larry Flynt has made his living by essentially pissing on certain groups of people to the delight of other groups of people (and of course, with pictures of naked women, which is always popular.) Sometimes when you make your living in such a way, people are going to do bad things to you. Did Larry Flynt deserve what he got? No, he didn’t. In general I don’t think anything a person publishes should get them shot and paralyzed, but in the real world your actions and your words often have consequences, as the paraplegic Larry Flynt has learned. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/86 "2007-07-12T17:35:34Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] Geez **Hyde** , you really gave the Way-Back Machine a workout to cobble together that list! I’m surprised you didn’t throw in Adam Clayton Powell. Five of those happened over 25 years ago, and correct me if I am wrong, was Torricelli ever convicted of anything? [/QUOTE] Was DeLay ever convicted of anything? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/87 "2007-07-12T17:37:20Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] So, which of these made a career of being holier than thou? Good old Edwin hardly built his career on moral probity - he built it on not being caught. You are obviously too Pubbie blind to see the difference between just doing something wrong and doing something wrong right after you proclaimed your moral rectitude. Hypocrites are clearly your favorite people. Kind of like someone saying he’ll bring us together while forcing anyone who won’t kiss his ass to not even be allowed to speak without being called a traitor. [/QUOTE] I’ve never denied Vetter was a hypocrite or even defended his actions. I’ve only objected to the characterization that we shouldn’t be surprised if _Republicans_ are caught acting corrupt because we should just assume they are because they belong to the Republican party. That’s patently absurd, and I demonstrated why by pointing out that people from both parties have been caught acting in a corrupt, immoral, or inappropriate manner. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/88 "2007-07-12T17:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Did Larry Flynt deserve what he got? No, he didn’t. In general I don’t think anything a person publishes should get them shot and paralyzed, but in the real world your actions and your words often have consequences, as the paraplegic Larry Flynt has learned. [/QUOTE] Based on that principle, sir, you should duly cherish the anonymity afforded to you by the very message board(s) you frequent. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/89 "2007-07-12T17:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Was DeLay ever convicted of anything? [/QUOTE] So that’s a no. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/90 "2007-07-12T17:59:17Z")
[QUOTE=Waenara] Sure she was less attractive when she was older and had jowls, but she wasn’t bad looking when she was younger. [Exhibit A](http://supercat.ucsd.edu/~sunspot/history/eleanor.jpg) [Exhibit B](http://z.about.com/d/womenshistory/1/7/w/I/eleanor_roosevelt2.jpg). [/QUOTE] One of her sisters said of her, “Our Eleanor could bite an apple through a picket fence.” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/91 "2007-07-12T18:07:46Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Was DeLay ever convicted of anything? [/QUOTE] Since DeLay’s trial is still going on, he has neither been convicted nor acquitted of the charges of money laundering and conspiracy to commit such. However, the charge of conspiring to violate election law was thrown out last year. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/92 "2007-07-12T18:25:26Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] A Republican politician who thinks lying is a bigger moral sin than adultery? You crack me up. [/QUOTE] I thought not. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/93 "2007-07-12T18:33:18Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] I’ve never denied Vetter was a hypocrite or even defended his actions. I’ve only objected to the characterization that we shouldn’t be surprised if _Republicans_ are caught acting corrupt because we should just assume they are because they belong to the Republican party. That’s patently absurd, and I demonstrated why by pointing out that people from both parties have been caught acting in a corrupt, immoral, or inappropriate manner. [/QUOTE] But people here are pitting him for being a hypocrite, not being a visitor to a brothel. As far as I’m concerned, that’s between him and his wife and his supposed deity (and his doctor if he’s not careful.) Corruption is a function of power, but being a hypocrite about family values appears to be something the Republicans have a lock on. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/94 "2007-07-12T18:55:04Z")
Moralistic, “family values” Republican likes to corndog prostitutes. Ho hum. Nothing new there (I just assume as a matter of course that the more a politician talks about sexual morality the more depraved he is behind closed doors). What I find really irritating, though is [this](http://www.ktbs.com/viewnews.cfm?news_id=2876&title=Senator%20Vitter%20on%20'Madam's'%20phone%20list) > [@](#): > > “Several years ago, I asked for and received forgiveness from God and my wife in confession and marriage counseling,” Vitter said in the statement. “Out of respect for my family, I will keep my discussion of the mater there – with God and them. But I certainly offer my deep and sincere apologies to all I have disappointed and let down in any way.” How exactly does he know that God has forgiven him? What a dick. I hate it when these assholes run and hide behind God with the implication that it’s none of our business now and that anyone who wants to call him on his hypocrisy (his _hyopcrisy_, not the sex) is now in opposition to God. This amounts to a statement that “God told me it was ok so fuck off.” Predictably, and equally hypocritically, we’re also getting this exact kind of arrogant, God-hammer, obfuscatory garbage from his fellow Republicans: > [@](#): > > ‘It’s really an issue between he and his family and God, and that has been dealt with, thankfully,’’ said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C. ‘‘He’s a very good friend. He’s a great legislator. So certainly I accept his apology, and hopefully it won’t have any effect on his service here.’’ Fuck you, Mint, his hypocrisy is NOT a private matter and it’s incredibly insulting to insinuate that his constituents have no right to judge him on this. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/95 "2007-07-12T18:59:42Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] How exactly does he know that God has forgiven him? [/QUOTE] [shrug] Same way he knows God exists. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/96 "2007-07-12T19:05:35Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Do you have any indication that Vitter was talking about adultery, instead of the offenses for which Clinton was impeached? I know, I know - BushliedaboutIraqClintonwasimpeachedforablowjobRepublicansbadDemocratsgoodblahdeblahIOKIADDI. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] He strongly implied it when Livingstone resigned over his own adultery scandal, suggesting that Clinton should follow suit. I’ve found some cites that say Vitter said that adultery alone was grounds for impeachment but I can’t find an exact quote. In what I can find, he does use the word “morality” a lot, a word that would have no application to a trivial civil perjury allegation. Reading betwen the lines, it’s obvious to anyone with any intellectual honesty that he was talking about the blow job, in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/97 "2007-07-12T19:06:16Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I thought not. Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] You don’t think? Noted. If Republicans got as bent out of shape about lying about WMDs as they do about sex, abortion, and stem cells, we’d have a much better political climate. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/98 "2007-07-12T19:22:08Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] But people here are pitting him for being a hypocrite, not being a visitor to a brothel. As far as I’m concerned, that’s between him and his wife and his supposed deity (and his doctor if he’s not careful.) Corruption is a function of power, but being a hypocrite about family values appears to be something the Republicans have a lock on. [/QUOTE] I don’t think so. Certainly there are tons and tons of Democrats who get into trouble in much the same way. Jim McGreevey cheated on his wife. Paul Patton, governor of Kentucky, had an affair with the owner of a nursing home, and used his clout to get state officials to approve more beds for her facility, tip her off when inspectors were coming and get her loans through programs designed to help disadvantaged business owners. When the affair ended, and the protection was lifted, the facility was immediately closed down as unsafe. Now, Democrats like families too, don’t they? And don’t they care for old folks? What you and other liberals are trying to do is to avoid debating the family values message on its merits. You’d rather discredit it by pointing to some individuals who have preached it and have later been caught in sin. Of course, in this you cherrypick heavily, and never mention, say, Rick Santorum, who for all of his considerable faults appears to be a devoted family man with six kids. And then when one of your own politicians get caught in nasty behavior you try to pass it off as a “private matter” since it doesn’t conflict with your party’s message. I think this is a copout, though. Marriage and childrearing and family policy is public policy, and if hypocrisy should taint the right on this, it ought to taint the left as well. I don’t think Vitter should have done what he did, and if he broke any laws he ought to pay and probably resign. But that doesn’t for one second change the fact that Bill Clinton committed perjury and endangered his presidency by doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/99 "2007-07-12T19:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=Voyager] … being a hypocrite about family values appears to be something the Republicans have a lock on. [/QUOTE] Really? Patronizing a prostitute while married is an action NOT in conflict with the values the Democratic party wishes to espouse? ---
**Author:** ![Linty\_Fresh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Linty\_Fresh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Linty_Fresh)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2007, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385/100 "2007-07-12T19:50:57Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] What you and other liberals are trying to do is to avoid debating the family values message on its merits. You’d rather discredit it by pointing to some individuals who have preached it and have later been caught in sin. [/QUOTE] What merits? What possible good can come of the family values message? Don’t schtupp prostitutes behind your wife’s back? Try to keep at least one or two of your wedding vows? Hey, we _know_ all this already, OK? Plenty of people on both sides of the political spectrum are faithful and loving spouses. Plenty of people on both sides are vicious conniving fuck bunnies, but do you really think that they’re going to change because a politician lectures in congress? Well, no you don’t, actually. You think they’ll change if the politician _legislates_ in congress, and that’s the problem I have with the family values system and their trumpeters, and that’s why a republican politician getting caught in this sort of thing is such a big deal. You guys are trying to play the political game by setting standards that you are proving incapable of holding yourselves to. That kind of hypocrisy isn’t just annoying; it’s dangerous. Stay out of our bedrooms, stay out of our marriages, shut the fuck up about how moral and upright you are, and then maybe we’ll stop caring when one of your senators gets caught in Lola’s Luv Nest with some guy in a leather cowboy outfit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/family-values-pub-senator-caught-up-in-dc-madam-scandal/411385.md?page=6)