# Famous lies througout history? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582 "2003-11-16T20:18:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/41 "2003-11-17T20:29:12Z")
The _Man Who Never Was_ plan was executed as [Operation Mincemeat](http://www.marciniak.com/mincemeat/mincemeat.html) and, while it’s a nice story and all, it probably doesn’t compare to the truly _enormous_ deception perpetrated the following year with [Operation Fortitude](http://www.normandiememoire.com/NM60Anglais/2_histo2/histo2_p5_gb.htm). [Fortitude South](http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fortitude) relied heavily upon a very live body, General George S. Patton. The Germans considered Patton to be the best Allied field commander, the Allies knew that, and since Patton had put himself in the doghouse by slapping a private anyhow, he was the perfect choice to command the ficticious First U.S. Army Group at Dover. Cecil’s latest article on [Potemkin Villages](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/031114.html) appears to qualify, as do the rumors about Catherine the Great taking horse riding to extremes. There have been a number of famous fraudulent artifacts–ahem, misrepresentations. Another famous “man who never was,” to quote the link, was [Piltdown Man](http://home.tiac.net/~cri_a/piltdown/piltdown.html). The [Shroud of Turin](http://www.shroud.com/menu.htm) might also qualify as a fraud. And then there was Emperor Frederick II, who supposedly fingered three people as the greatest frauds in history. It’s probably best not to go there… How about the great [“Spanish Prisoner”](http://www.stamporama.com/rambler/show.php?sd=roy&a=prisoner) scam? Check out this letter from 1910 and tell me if it sounds familiar to any of you with e-mail: > [@](#): > > Madrid 12 -3 - 1910 > > Dear Sir, > > Although I know you only from good references of your honesty, my sad situation compels me to reveal [to] you an important affair in which you can procure a modest fortune, saving at the same time that of my darling daughter. > > Before being imprisoned here I was established as a Banker in Russia, as you will see by the enclosed article about me of many English newspapers which have published my arrest in London. [Ed. note: Unfortunately, the article did not survive.] > > I beseech you to help me to obtain a sum of 480,000 dollars I have in America and to come here to raise the seizure of my baggage, paying to the Registrar of the Court the expenses of my trial and recover my portmanteau [ed. note: literally, “coatrack”] containing a secret pocket where I have hidden the documents indispensible to recover the said sum. > > As a reward I will give up to you the third part viz. 160,000 dollars. > > I cannot receive your answer in the prison but you must send a cablegram to a person of my confidence who will deliver it to me. > > Awaiting your cable to instruct you in all my secret, I am Sir, Yours truly, > > Demidoff > > First of all answer by cable, not by letter, as follows: Gonzalves > Jacometrozo 23 Tercero A - Madrid > YES - Watson [ed. note: The name of the addressee] Heh, heh. There’s a sucker born every minute. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/42 "2003-11-17T20:32:49Z")
The immaculate conception and the virgin birth. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/43 "2003-11-17T20:39:36Z")
The pretender to the Stuart throne? Ponzi? Milli-Vanilli? my resume’? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/44 "2003-11-17T21:03:13Z")
> [@](#): > > The immaculate conception and the virgin birth. I would ask you for a cite but you know how this religion thing work… there is a general lack of facts that have to be replaced with faith… still calling the inmaculate conception a lie is a bit strong. Don´t you think so? ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/45 "2003-11-17T21:11:24Z")
Remember The Maine! ---
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/46 "2003-11-17T21:45:13Z")
Here are six big lies that I think are oft overlooked in history… 1. The British promise to the Jews as per the Balfour Declaration during WWI for the establishment of a Jewish nation in Palestine. (Which the British government reneged on at the end of WWI, thus paving the way for Holocaust.) 2. The Slapton Sands incident in southern England in April or May of 1944 when over 900 U.S. troops were killed and lost in the English Channel after their LSTs/LCIs were sunk by German u-boats while they were rehearsing for D-day. The U.S. government covered up their deaths, by attributing them to the D-day landings in order exculpate badly needed commanders and prevent the Germans from finding out they were preparing for D-day. 3. The whole premise behind the U.S. war effort in Vietnam of allegedly fighting a communist insurgency, exposed as pretext by Daniel Ellsberg’s leaking of the DoD’s Pentagon Papers to the Washington Post et al., in 1971. 4. Then Army Major Colin Powell’s dismissive finding in an official inspector general’s report for divisional HQ of the 22nd Americal Division regarding allegations of a “massacre” of civilian unarmed non-combatants in the village of Mai-lai, Rep. of Vietnam, allegedly perpetrated by a U.S. Army infantry company from the Americal Dvision. 5. The Clinton administration’s dismissal of culpability regarding the U.S. Army’s responsilbility for “the Bridge at No Gun-Ri” incident during the Korean War, which involved execution-style murder of 200+ Korean civilian non-combatants by the U.S. Army during the opening phase of that war, as exposed by the AP in 1999. 6. The well-orchestrated deception by the Allies that Patton would lead invasion forces to landings at Pas de Calais on D-day. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/47 "2003-11-17T21:50:30Z")
Declaration of Independence. Gettysburg address. ---
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/48 "2003-11-17T22:00:58Z")
What??!! N. Iskander, plzz explain. Here’s number 7 to be aded to my list above: 1. The German pre-fascist explanation for the reason why they lost WWI – the “Dolchstosslegende” – i.e., the reason that the Germans lost WWI was because the German government betrayed the German army by “stabbing them in the back” by caving into concessions made at Versailles without putting up a fight to the Great Powers. ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/49 "2003-11-17T22:05:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by New Iskander \* > \*\*Declaration of Independence. > > Gettysburg address. \*\* How does either of these qualify as a lie? If you are referring to the “all men are created equal” line in each document, perhaps you should have narrowed it down to just that. A case can be made for hypocricy, or perhaps cynicism on the part of the writer of each. But the Declaration was not a lie, and neither was the address. That their authors were not altogether honest doesn’t make the whole of their writing a lie. ---
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/50 "2003-11-17T22:33:53Z")
And lest we forget… 8) Geraldo Rivera alleging on live national television that untold riches and loot were shortly to be found in Al Capone’s safe. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2003, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/51 "2003-11-17T22:42:16Z")
Every treaty made by the US Govt with the Nativie Americans. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/52 "2003-11-18T01:45:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kmg365 \* > **What??!! > N. Iskander, plzz explain.** “WE hold these Truths to be self-evident,…” is just too juicy to deconstruct. Beautiful words, rock solid to base your faith on, all untrue. Note on the Gettysburg Address by H.L. Mencken “The Gettysburg speech was at once the shortest and the most famous oration in American history…the highest emotion reduced to a few poetical phrases. Lincoln himself never even remotely approached it. It is genuinely stupendous. But let us not forget that it is poetry, not logic; beauty, not sense. Think of the argument in it. Put it into the cold words of everyday. The doctrine is simply this: that the Union soldiers who died at Gettysburg sacrificed their lives to the cause of self-determination – that government of the people, by the people, for the people, should not perish from the earth. It is difficult to imagine anything more untrue. The Union soldiers in the battle actually fought against self-determination; it was the Confederates who fought for the right of their people to govern themselves.” Beautiful, inspiring, magnificent lies. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/53 "2003-11-18T04:28:21Z")
So slaves don’t count as people in your philosophy? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/54 "2003-11-18T04:56:29Z")
**New Iskander** : No, the Confederates were fighting _for_ the Plantation system, a system founded upon slavery and sharecropping. There was no self-determination in the Confederacy, save for a few mean and petty examples called plantation owners. The Union soldiers, on the other hand, were fighting for a pre-Industrial socioeconomic system that proved to be more egalitarian than the Plantation system could possibly have been. I’m not saying that Industrial America was particularly egalitarian (I know it wasn’t), but that the egalitarianism we’ve achieved now is a direct descendent from the Industrial era and could not have come out of any Plantation system. As for your “WE hold these Truths to be self-evident,…”, I don’t quite get what you mean: Is that phrase stupid, or is the whole document stupid? Do you disagree with the proposition that all men are created equal, or do you disagree with the men who wrote that line? Because that’s really what the Declaration says, once you strip away the list of grievances: Everyone is born equal, and born with certain rights no person or government can rightfully take away from them. If you disagree with that statement, I suppose we’ll have a debate. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/55 "2003-11-18T05:30:56Z")
From New Iskander > [@](#): > > “WE hold these Truths to be self-evident,…” is just too juicy to deconstruct. Beautiful words, rock solid to base your faith on, all untrue. From Derleth > [@](#): > > As for your “WE hold these Truths to be self-evident,…”, I don’t quite get what you mean: Is that phrase stupid, or is the whole document stupid? Do you disagree with the proposition that all men are created equal, or do you disagree with the men who wrote that line? Because that’s really what the Declaration says, once you strip away the list of grievances: Everyone is born equal, and born with certain rights no person or government can rightfully take away from them. If you disagree with that statement, I suppose we’ll have a debate. At a guess? The phrase “all men are created equal” is false on close examination…all men aren’t CREATED equal, and no act of government can make them so. After all, a man born deformed is not PHYSICALLY equal to a man born whole. A man born a genius is not equal to a man born with a learning disability. A man born in the ghetto is not equal (as far as opertunities) as a man born in a mansion. etc etc… I’ve heard this kind of thing before, so thats my guess as to what New Iskander is saying. Of course, this totally ignores the INTENT of the saying…which is all men are equal in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of the government, and no man shall be treated differently. Even that, I suppose you could argue, is not what reality is. However, its a IDEAL…and a damn good one, IMO. Anyway, if I’m wrong about your intent, New Iskander, what did you mean? (BTW, I’m using ‘men’ in the form of ‘mankind’…not the male gender only. Just wanted to clear that up before someone tags me for being a sexist :)) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/56 "2003-11-18T05:50:09Z")
Here, for example, is a letter I got today: > [@](#): > > FROM: MR DAN PATRICK. > DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO. > ALTERNATIVE EMAIL: ([danpatrick1@rediffmail.com](mailto:danpatrick1@rediffmail.com)) > Dear Sir, > SEEKING YOUR IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE. > Please permit me to make your acquaintance in so informal a manner. This is > necessitated by my urgent need to reach a dependable and trust wordy foreign > partner. This request may seem strange and unsolicited but I will crave your > indulgence and pray that you view it seriously. My name is. DAN PATRICK of the > Democratic Republic of Congo and One of the close aides to the former President > of the Democratic Republic of Congo LAURENT KABILA of blessed memory, may his > soul rest in peace. > Due to the military campaign of LAURENT KABILA to force out the rebels in my > country, I and some of my colleagues were instructed by Late President Kabila to > go abroad to purchase arms and ammunition worth of Twenty Million, Five Hundred > Thousand United States Dollars only (US$20,500,000.00) to fight the rebel group. > But when President Kabila was killed in a bloody shoot-out by one of his aide a > day before we were schedule to travel out of Congo, We immediately decided to > divert the fund into a private security company here in Congo for safe keeping. > The security of the said amount is presently being threatened here following the > arrest and seizure of properties of Col.Rasheidi Karesava (One of the aides to > Laurent Kabila) a tribesman, and some other Military Personnel from our same > tribe, by the new President of the Democratic Republic of Congo, the son of late > President Laurent Kabila, Joseph Kabila. In view of this, we need a reliable and > trustworthy foreign partner who can assist us to move this money out of my > country as the beneficiary. > WE have sufficient ‘‘CONTACTS’’ to move the fund under Diplomatic Cover to a > security company in the Europe in your name. This is to ensure that the > Diplomatic Baggage is marked ‘‘CONFIDENTIAL’’ and it will not pass through > normal custom/airport screening and clearance. Our inability to move this money > out of Congo all This while lies on our lack of trust on our supposed good > friends (western countries) who suddenly became hostile to those of us who > worked with the late President Kabila, immediately after his son took office. > Though we have neither seen nor met each other, the information we gathered from > an associate who has worked in your country has encouraged and convinced us that > with your sincere assistance, this transaction will be properly handled with > modesty and honesty to a huge success within two weeks. The said money is a > state fund and therefore requires a total confidentiality. > Thus, if you are willing to assist us move this fund out of Congo, you can > contact me through my email address above with your telephone, fax number and > personal information to enable us discuss the modalities and what will be your > share (percentage) for assisting us. I must use this opportunity and medium to > implore You to exercise the utmost indulgence to keep this Matter > extraordinarily confidential, Whatever your Decision, while I await your prompt > response. > NOTE: FOR CONFIDENTIALITY, I WILL ADVISE YOU REPLY ME ON MY ALTERNATIVE EMAIL > BOX ([danpatrick1@rediffmail.com](mailto:danpatrick1@rediffmail.com)). Thank you and God Bless. > Best Regards, > MR DAN PATRICK. Same as it ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Hayduke\_Lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Hayduke\_Lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hayduke_Lives)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/57 "2003-11-18T06:53:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sludgely \* > \*\*Can anyone else think of noteworthy, history making lies? \*\* _“Cecil Adams is a real, live, person”_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/58 "2003-11-18T08:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\*Here, for example, is a letter I got today: > “FROM: MR DAN PATRICK. > DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF CONGO. > ALTERNATIVE EMAIL: ([danpatrick1@rediffmail.com](mailto:danpatrick1@rediffmail.com)) > Dear Sir, > SEEKING YOUR IMMEDIATE ASSISTANCE. (snip) > Thank you and God Bless.” > > Same as it ever was. \*\* I got the very same letter in my email. He blessed both of us, since we are both such good friends of his! Kind of clever to enlist God in his scam. :rolleyes: I’ve received several variations of this in the last few months, most of them from Africa. I think fraud is getting to be a cottage industry in some of those countries. Who is actually stupid enough to fall for this dodge? ---
**Author:** ![spogga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ab097/32.png) [@spogga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spogga)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/59 "2003-11-18T10:58:52Z")
I’ve had the very same letter and like everyone else I immediately replied with my bank details, I will be very rich in less than 2 weeks 😃 It was reported in the UK press last week that some dozy woman had replied to an e-mail from Imelda Marcos?? …that’s right the daft sod lost her life savings. ---
**Author:** ![Flying\_Monk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/48db29/32.png) [@Flying\_Monk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Monk)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-lies-througout-history/213582/60 "2003-11-18T11:52:25Z")
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