# Famous or notable people after 1840 who are not in photographs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 16, 2015, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675 "2015-11-16T07:07:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/21 "2015-11-19T00:09:17Z")
[quote=“Captain\_Amazing, post:18, topic:737675”] Here’s one: [/QUOTE] 🆒 When and where was this discovered? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/22 "2015-11-19T00:12:02Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > A couple of other musicians, like the Residents and Question Mark from “? and the Mysterians” are pretty coy about their actual identities and have no known photos. KISS were that way in the late 1970s too. This led to all kinds of rumors; the most ludicrous was that they were women, and Paul Stanley’s costume negated that! 😛 A more reasonable one was that they were black, which would have been an issue at the time WRT the kind of music they played. Had Paul been black, he would had to have been very light skinned. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/23 "2015-11-19T00:46:18Z")
Bill Watterson (_Calvin and Hobbes_) is remarkably camera-shy; there are only a few photos of him out on the web. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/24 "2015-11-19T04:37:07Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Interestingly, although we have photographs of the photographic pioneers Louis Daguerre, Henry Fox Talbot, and John Herschel, we don’t have any of the originator of the art, Nicephore Niepce (although we have engravings). Arguably, he was just TOO early. It was the brief period between the invention of the photograph and the invention of the selfie. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/25 "2015-11-19T04:41:53Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > [Geechie Wiley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geeshie_Wiley), a blues singer from the 1930s, made kind of a big impact in recent years. Her most famous song, “The Last Kind Words Blues,” was featured in the movie **Crumb** and a big article about her appeared in the New York Times a couple of years ago. She made three single records in her career and sang in nightclubs up through the 1950s. The people who know about her really, REALLY know about her. No known photos. Robert Johnson is one of the most famous figures in the blues genre. And he lived until 1938, when photography was relatively common. But there are only two photographs of him. (There was a recent claim that a third photograph had been found, but it’s apparently now been disproven.) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/26 "2015-11-19T06:19:21Z")
Harry Winston–a jeweler who once owned the Hope Diamond. The Imam Yahia, head of state of Yemen in the late 1940s, was never photographed–he forbade it under pain of drastic punishment. On the day that a likeness of him appeared in a Ripley column in 1948, he was reported to have been assassinated. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/27 "2015-11-19T11:32:26Z")
There’s no known photograph of [Willie Brown](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Brown_%28musician%29), a friend and associate of Robert Johnson’s (he’s mentioned in one take of Johnson’s “Cross Road Blues”, aka “Crossroads”) and an influential bluesman in his own right. Early Delta blues singers sort of existed in a different, time-shifted era: poverty and Jim Crow made it much less likely that they’d have access to technologies like photography than their mainstream, urban counterparts (let alone white stars) of the same era. [Charlie Patton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Patton) was possibly the most famous Delta blues singer, and there exists one known photo of him. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/28 "2015-11-19T13:11:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It was the brief period between the invention of the photograph and the invention of the selfie. I’m afraid [there was no such period](http://publicdomainreview.org/collections/robert-cornelius-self-portrait-the-first-ever-selfie-1839/), alas! ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/29 "2015-11-19T13:23:51Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > On a related note, Isadora Duncan died in 1927, and yet there are no known moving images of her. I was about to make a similar point about George Orwell. Despite working for the BBC there are no moving images, or voice recordings of Orwell. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/30 "2015-11-19T14:11:44Z")
Actually, there [is](http://www.openculture.com/2013/03/the_only_known_footage_of_george_orwell.html) footage of Orwell (or at least of Eric Blair, since he hadn’t written anything yet). > [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > A couple of other musicians, like the Residents and Question Mark from “? and the Mysterians” are pretty coy about their actual identities and have no known photos. New-ish heavy metal band Ghost has six members, and all of their names and faces are a secret. The singer wears King Diamond-esque makeup and is known only as Papa Emeritus, and the rest wear masks and are referred to as “Nameless Ghouls.” I’m not sure any of those people count, though; their record labels obviously know who they are and there are bound to be pictures of them somewhere. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > KISS were that way in the late 1970s too. This led to all kinds of rumors; the most ludicrous was that they were women, and Paul Stanley’s costume negated that! 😛 A more reasonable one was that they were black, which would have been an issue at the time WRT the kind of music they played. I don’t think it would have been _that_ big a deal. There were a number of non-secret black hard rock musicians around at the time, or before; Hendrix (and Billy Cox) and Phil Lynott spring to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/31 "2015-11-19T14:55:14Z")
[Nick Drake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Drake) (d 1974) was a not-unknown musician during his life - 3 albums released on a major label, even if they didn’t sell well - and there is no film footage of him as an adult, only still photographs. There’s also no authenticated live recordings or photos of his performances. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/32 "2015-11-19T18:52:42Z")
I think a distinction should be made between famous people of which there were no photographs and those that actively avoid photographs (like Watterson) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/33 "2015-11-19T18:54:21Z")
Why? The OP specifically referenced both. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/34 "2015-11-19T19:19:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t think it would have been _that_ big a deal. There were a number of non-secret black hard rock musicians around at the time, or before; Hendrix (and Billy Cox) and Phil Lynott spring to mind. Not if there was a single non-white member. But all of them? It could have been a big deal. A decade later, along came Living Colour, a black hard-rock quartet, and nobody batted an eye at that (until the inferior knockoffs, the best known being 24/7 Spyz, came along). Check out the excellent documentary “A Band Called Death” for some insight into race and music in the mid- and late 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/35 "2015-11-19T19:28:11Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I was about to make a similar point about George Orwell. Despite working for the BBC there are no moving images, or voice recordings of Orwell. So what? Isadora Duncan and Nijinsky were famous dancers. Their fame is baseupon movement. Technology existed to capture said movement, but wasn’t used. (Or at least only a few seconds.) Not recording them is something of a loss to history. Orwell fame is not based on moving, or for his voice. It’s no huge loss that they weren’t recorded. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/36 "2015-11-19T20:06:16Z")
If we’re talking voice recordings, one surprising example is Adolf Hitler. There are obviously hours of recordings of him giving public speeches. But he deliberately used a “public” voice in his [speeches](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV9kyocogKo). There’s only one [recording](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClR9tcpKZec) of his voice speaking in the conversational tones he used normally. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/37 "2015-11-19T20:08:59Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Orwell fame is not based on moving, or for his voice. It’s no huge loss that they weren’t recorded. Not sure I agree with that. A huge part of an author’s life is live readings of excerpts from their books, even if those are generally not attended by a large fraction of those who read the books. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/38 "2015-11-21T19:48:56Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > I would have been inclined to say Thomas Pynchon, who’s still alive, but it seems that some very few photographs of him have indeed been published. Can’t say “Pynchon” without “J D Salinger.” ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/39 "2015-11-21T20:31:34Z")
Perhaps he was very infrequently photographed in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675/40 "2015-11-21T23:32:55Z")
There hasn’t been a new photograph of Steve Ditko (Spider-Man co-creator) in almost 50 years. He’s become something of a cult figure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-or-notable-people-after-1840-who-are-not-in-photographs/737675.md?page=3)