# Famous People Who NEVER Existed! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 30, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586 "2004-07-30T13:37:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/81 "2004-07-31T20:13:44Z")
> [@Cicada2003](#): > > Has anyone mentioned Alan Smithee? (Or has he sneakily become a real person?) > > And, darn it, Mickey Mouse _is_ real! But not a person. I found that name in the index of “Cinemania '94,” a movie encyclopedia in CD-ROM form, as a pseudonym used when a studio was too embarrassed by a movie to identify the real director (or the director himself was too embarrassed.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/82 "2004-07-31T20:53:20Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Has anyone mentioned Alan Smithee? (Or has he sneakily become a real person?) > > > > And, darn it, Mickey Mouse is real! But not a person. > > I found that name in the index of “Cinemania '94,” a movie encyclopedia in CD-ROM form, as a pseudonym used when a studio was too embarrassed by a movie to identify the real director (or the director himself was too embarrassed.) 😃 Really? I thought he was just an innocent little cartoon mouse. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wolfstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d6d6ee/32.png) [@wolfstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfstu)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/83 "2004-07-31T21:17:03Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > In the matter of Jesus, I might point out that the New Testament is far better attested in terms of extant manuscripts than are any number of “secular” persons of ancient times whose existence and accounts–by Tacitus, Xenlophon, Berossus, Herodotus, and so on, are never questioned… I have no cites, but I’ve seen it posted here on the boards that Jesus is, in fact, one of the least well-documented religious figures around, and that there’s next to no firsthand evidence of his existence, especially compared to political figures like Julius Caesar and Herod. Again, no cites. I’m not a historical scholar. But it’s been posted as fact here on the boards. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/84 "2004-07-31T22:16:41Z")
> [@wolfstu](#): > > I have no cites, but I’ve seen it posted here on the boards that Jesus is, in fact, one of the least well-documented religious figures around, and that there’s next to no firsthand evidence of his existence, especially compared to political figures like Julius Caesar and Herod. That’s the sort of thing a layman would say. Real historians do not consider eyewitness testimony to be essential in establishing someone’s existence, especially with regard to ancient history. So even if you grant that there are no firsthand accounts of his existence (a statement with which I disagree), there is still ample evidence to that effect – [a rather generous amount by the standards of ancient history](http://www.fact-index.com/h/hi/historicity_of_jesus_christ.html), in fact. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/85 "2004-07-31T22:22:31Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Don Corleone. > > Vito was probably a combination of several maifa personlities, but as far as I know, Micheal is entirely fictional. I’m not sure anybody thought he was actually real. Anyway, I think I remember reading that he was mostly based on Carlo Gambino. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/86 "2004-07-31T22:41:09Z")
If you’re in Italy, you can visit the “Tomb of Juliet”, from “Romeo and Juliet”. I honestly can’t remember where it is, although one assumes it’s in Verona. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/87 "2004-08-01T00:58:00Z")
> [@Cicada2003](#): > > Has anyone mentioned Alan Smithee? (Or has he sneakily become a real person?) Huh?!? What? Why is everyone looking at me like that? ---
**Author:** ![Feit\_C\_Taj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@Feit\_C\_Taj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feit_C_Taj)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/88 "2004-08-01T01:22:36Z")
How about Abdul al-Hazred? Yes, there may have been a _Necronomicon_, but no, it was not written by a mad Arab. Just a figment of HPL’s imagination. ---
**Author:** ![flamingbananas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f4b2a3/32.png) [@flamingbananas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flamingbananas)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/89 "2004-08-01T01:31:19Z")
This thread makes my head hurt. So many people once thought existed, don’t after all. _walks out of thread, holding head_ ---
**Author:** ![MidnightRadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@MidnightRadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MidnightRadio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/90 "2004-08-01T04:07:41Z")
[Sweeney Todd](http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial9/sweeney/) ---
**Author:** ![rjk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ed655f/32.png) [@rjk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjk)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/91 "2004-08-01T05:18:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > \ > **Penelope Ashe** , the author of the book **Naked Came the Stranger** , didn’t exist. It was revealed a couple of years after the book’s release that the name was simply made up and the book was written by a group of authors, each doing a chapter. The ruse was so well remembered that about a decade ago a group of Florida-based authors (Dave Barry and Carl Hiassen among them) could pull a similar stunt and call the result **Naked Came the Manatee** , without having to explain the title. > \ I just finished another “serial novel” called **Naked Came the Phoenix** , edited by Marcia Talley and written chapter-by-chapter by thirteen well-known female mystery writers. (Not a bad book, given the difficulties.) In the intro, Talley mentions **The Floating Admiral** by “Certain Members of the Detection Club” in 1931. **Stranger** came out of the Long Island _Newsday_ offices, and **Manatee** was first serialized in the _Miami Herald_. As she points out, if any book with a _Naked Came …_ title claims a single author, that person probably doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/92 "2004-08-01T05:51:47Z")
The ancient Gaelic poet Ossian, as hoaxed by James MacPherson beginning in 1760. The medieval poet “Thomas Rowley”, as hoaxed by Thomas Chatterton in 1769. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/93 "2004-08-01T07:16:29Z")
In Uncle Cecil’s column about [“Who was the worst Catholic saint?”](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020315.html) he describes how some traditional saints were demoted in the 20th century due to doubts as to either their stories or their very existence. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/94 "2004-08-01T07:42:13Z")
> [@Doktor Fluff](#): > > How about Abdul al-Hazred? > > Yes, there may have been a _Necronomicon_, but no, it was not written by a mad Arab. Just a figment of HPL’s imagination. [The Necronomicon isn’t real either.](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mnecromicon.html) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/95 "2004-08-01T08:27:47Z")
> [@rjk](#): > > I just finished another “serial novel” called **Naked Came the Phoenix** , edited by Marcia Talley and written chapter-by-chapter by thirteen well-known female mystery writers. (Not a bad book, given the difficulties.) In the intro, Talley mentions **The Floating Admiral** by “Certain Members of the Detection Club” in 1931. **Stranger** came out of the Long Island _Newsday_ offices, and **Manatee** was first serialized in the _Miami Herald_. As she points out, if any book with a _Naked Came …_ title claims a single author, that person probably doesn’t exist. From the standpoint of the clause in the U. S. Constitution vesting the power of copyright protection in Congress, books like _Naked Came the Stranger_–same as any other book whose author’s identity is contrived for fraudulent purposes–should be denied copyright ("…to promote…the useful arts…") _Naked Came the Stranger_ was (according to a contemporary account) a joke. It should not have been granted copyright and I will say that face to face with the authors who contrived it. It’s the same with the Tom Swift and Nancy Drew books, whose named authors are fictitious (and certainly not an example for children who would read them). ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/96 "2004-08-01T13:50:41Z")
I think I’ve got a good one that hasn’t been mentioned yet: **Émile Ajar**. He was a French author who wrote four novels, one of them even claiming the _Prix Goncourt_, the most prestigious French literary prize. From his first novel, critics suspected that the previously unheard-of Ajar might be a pseudonym for someone else. Indeed, he was a creation of the very famous author, Romain Gary. However, this was only made public after Gary’s death. Gary asked one of his cousins to play the part of Ajar. When Émile Ajar won the _Goncourt_, Gary had already won it, which would have disqualified him since it can only be given once. Authors taking a pseudonyms isn’t all that rare but Romain Gary went a bit farther with his Ajar character. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/97 "2004-08-01T14:22:19Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > From the standpoint of the clause in the U. S. Constitution vesting the power of copyright protection in Congress, books like _Naked Came the Stranger_–same as any other book whose author’s identity is contrived for fraudulent purposes–should be denied copyright ("…to promote…the useful arts…") _Naked Came the Stranger_ was (according to a contemporary account) a joke. It should not have been granted copyright and I will say that face to face with the authors who contrived it. It’s the same with the Tom Swift and Nancy Drew books, whose named authors are fictitious (and certainly not an example for children who would read them). I thought that there were whole tomes of law and codes now that amend, expand and redefine the original powers outlined in the Constitution? And what sort of definition of ‘defraud’ are you using? Does that mean an author known for writing in one genre can’t get copyright for a work published under a pseudonym because they’re trying to avoid the image their name has attached to it from their time as a Romance writer? Or the author who uses a pseudonym, with malice of forethought, to ensure that rabid fans can’t start swamping them with phone calls at all hours of the day or night? Sorry 😃 I’m a natural nitpicker, and if you don’t feel like going into this further, that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@Kilvert\_s\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilvert_s_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/98 "2004-08-01T17:31:15Z")
**Kilgore Trout**. **Raul Duke**. ---
**Author:** ![Ross](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@Ross](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ross)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/99 "2004-08-01T19:27:54Z")
There is always someone somewhere who thinks fictional people existed. Soap stars frequently tell of being harassed in the street by morons who can’t understand the difference between tv and real life. Also, I always thought people called the monster “Frankenstein” because the poor bugger deserved some kind of identity. If not pocket money, frankly. > [@](#): > > Sophie: What’s that hanging down between your legs? > > Alan: It’s a flex off a mini-kettle. Supposed to be a tail. > > Sophie: Zombies don’t have tails. > > Alan: Alright, it’s inconsistent! Zombies, by their very nature, are inconsistent. They’re a mish-mash of different bits. > > Ben: No, that’s Frankenstein. > > Alan: Right, you’ve made two glaring errors [raises his finger to make the point]. > > Ben: What’s that on your fingers? > > Alan: They’re tungsten-tipped screws, claws. Right, error one – actually, they’re quite good for making a point, aren’t they? Error one, right, Frankenstein was the name of the creator, not the monster. Error two, right, Frankenstein is a zombie. He’s a type of zombie. It’s like people who say Tannoy when they mean public-address system. Tannoy is a brand name. Why are you all staring at me? I’m not having a go at anyone, I’m having a pop at the undead. Do you see any upset zombies around? > > Sophie: Just the one. > > Alan: This country. [He sweeps his shower curtain/cape grandly and walks off.] ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/100 "2004-08-01T20:08:49Z")
A few years ago. horror & crime writer Peter Haining wrote a bio of the “real” Sweeny Todd, conspicuous for its total lack of documentation. I’m sure the Crime Library picked it up, hopefully in a knowing continuation of the joke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586.md?page=6)