# Famous People Who NEVER Existed! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 30, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586 "2004-07-30T13:37:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2004, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/121 "2004-08-04T23:07:05Z")
A girl in my highschool once piped up in history class, “Mr. P., have you ever visited Uncle Tom’s cabin?” ::stunned silence:: “Um, no…you do realize that…” “Because my boyfriend said he went there on a vacation trip with his parents.” We all cried. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/122 "2004-08-05T03:57:30Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > So you don’t think the fictitious names(s) were/was a brazen attempt to deceive the reader? > SHORT & SOUR: I saw a magazine cartoon, in the early Sixties, which said it all to me. Two people in a car–obviously Hollywood movie people (sunglasses, gaudy clothes, fancy sports car…). The woman drives; the man is reading a book. He says, “That Mark Twain is funny. He must have had some wonderful writers.” **Which** fake names? You haven’t answered any of my questions. Here’s an easy one: Do you believe that any work published under anything other than the author(s) full legal name(s) cannot Constitutionally be granted copyright within the US? To answer your question, **no**. I do not believe that Theodore Giesel intended to decieve me into thinking that a university had granted a doctorate to the author of _Green Eggs and Ham_ under the name of “Seuss.” I don’t believe Daniel Handler wants me to think his Social Security card really reads “Lemony Snicket.” While I consider it just plausable that Mike Lenahan, David Kerr, Ed Zotti, et alia want or at one time wanted us to believe that the Chicago Reader cuts a paycheck (or makes a secret night-time cash drop in an out-of-order phonebooth behind an abandoned book depository) for “Cecil Adams”, any such deception is playful, not malicious and “brazen.” And while Stephen King certainly **did** intend to decieve his readers at one point into thinking that the author of _The Running Man_ was not also the author of _Carrie_, I am not offended by this deception, because the use of noms de plume is a well-known and age-old tradition, and I would no more assume that a writen work (especially one of fiction) appears under the author’s legal name than that Calvin Broadus’s parents are properly addressed as Mr. and Mrs. Dogg or that Marvin Lee Aday’s are Mr. and Mrs. Loaf. The point of your cartoon would seem to be the same–only a fool would make unjustified assumptions about the authorship or authorial process behind a given work without doing even the most basic research on it. Perhaps I am imagining things, but I seem to recall that you are a lawyer, **dougie\_monty** (if that is your real name!). Would you really make the claim you’ve made here in a court of law with no more evidence or argument than you’ve given us? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/123 "2004-08-05T04:07:54Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > A girl in my highschool once piped up in history class, “Mr. P., have you ever visited Uncle Tom’s cabin?” > ::stunned silence:: > “Um, no…you do realize that…” > “Because my boyfriend said he went there on a vacation trip with his parents.” > We all cried. I vaguely recall that there may have been an actual slave who had some part inspiring Harriet Beecher Stowe. And if that slave lived in a cabin… well! ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/124 "2004-08-05T08:24:08Z")
> [@Alan Smithee](#): > > **Which** fake names? You haven’t answered any of my questions. Here’s an easy one: Do you believe that any work published under anything other than the author(s) full legal name(s) cannot Constitutionally be granted copyright within the US? > > To answer your question, **no**. I do not believe that Theodore Giesel intended to decieve me into thinking that a university had granted a doctorate to the author of _Green Eggs and Ham_ under the name of “Seuss.” I don’t believe Daniel Handler wants me to think his Social Security card really reads “Lemony Snicket.” While I consider it just plausable that Mike Lenahan, David Kerr, Ed Zotti, et alia want or at one time wanted us to believe that the Chicago Reader cuts a paycheck (or makes a secret night-time cash drop in an out-of-order phonebooth behind an abandoned book depository) for “Cecil Adams”, any such deception is playful, not malicious and “brazen.” And while Stephen King certainly **did** intend to decieve his readers at one point into thinking that the author of _The Running Man_ was not also the author of _Carrie_, I am not offended by this deception, because the use of noms de plume is a well-known and age-old tradition, and I would no more assume that a writen work (especially one of fiction) appears under the author’s legal name than that Calvin Broadus’s parents are properly addressed as Mr. and Mrs. Dogg or that Marvin Lee Aday’s are Mr. and Mrs. Loaf. The point of your cartoon would seem to be the same–only a fool would make unjustified assumptions about the authorship or authorial process behind a given work without doing even the most basic research on it. > > Perhaps I am imagining things, but I seem to recall that you are a lawyer, **dougie\_monty** (if that is your real name!). Would you really make the claim you’ve made here in a court of law with no more evidence or argument than you’ve given us? To answer your questions: 1. I mean the fictitious names given as authors of the Hardy Boys, Tom Swift, and Nancy Drew books. And while we’re on the subject, _Naked Came the Stranger._ 2. Do l believe that “ghost” authors have Constitutionally sanctioned copyright protection? Yes, in the case of Theodor _Seuss_ Geisel; A. A. Fair (aka Earle Stanley Gardner); Ellery Queen; as long as it’s the author’s own pseudonym and not one concocted for him/her by someone like Stratemeyer. 3. I can’t answer your question about Stephen King–I detest his books and will not read them. (someone once suggested I read them; I said I would rather be illiterate.) 4. No, I am not a lawyer. Who told you I was? At best I’m a paralegal. And my real full legal name–you can check the record in Marion County, IN if you like–is Larry Douglal Montgomery. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/125 "2004-08-05T08:26:51Z")
That should be Dougla_s,_ not “Douglal.” :o ---
**Author:** ![MisterThyristor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecccb3/32.png) [@MisterThyristor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MisterThyristor)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/126 "2004-08-05T17:24:20Z")
How about “Otto Titzling”, the supposed inventor of the brassiere? I still run into people who believe he’s real. [Snopes comments.](http://www.snopes.com/business/origins/bra.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Beauty\_Personified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Beauty\_Personified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beauty_Personified)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/127 "2004-08-05T20:04:53Z")
> [@Alan Smithee](#): > > Did the publishers of the Hardy Boys, Tom Swift, etc., engage in deception to convince the public that their “house names” were real individuals? They deceived me as a child due to the fact that there was a bio for “Franklin W. Dixon” at the back of each Hardy Boys book. I did a school report on Dixon back then. I don’t know if my teacher even knew that Dixon was a fictional author, but if she did, I don’t know how I would have reacted had she pointed that out to me. I seem to remember being mildly amused when I discovered the truth years later. I was definitely not angry, though. And let me reiterate that I do not believe a house name like “Franklin W. Dixon” (multiple writers using one pseudonym) is the same as one author using a pseudonym. A writer behind a pen name is a real person, whereas a house name writer doesn’t exist as an individual. That said, a writer who creates a fictional history for his pen name isn’t much different than the Hardy Boys publishers created a history for Dixon. It should also be pointed out that I’ve come across many authors who use their real names, yet embellish the bios at the back of their books with exaggerations and outright fantasies. Some are obvious and often amusing, while others are believable. I believe the only time such fictional claims should matter is when someone writes a book purporting to be fact rather than fiction. (Or a fictional book purporting to be based on “facts” mentioned in an appendix or bibliography.) Anyhoo… ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/128 "2004-08-05T22:20:14Z")
> [@TRUE-BRIT](#): > > Y > > The real tragedy was the 11th / 13th Century Catholic Church’s policy to destroy all heathen writings. To rewrite all fables, to spread myths of great wondrous acts by biblical figures, and the creation of a surpreme being. It took about 200 years to cobble together the so called Chrisitian Word and teachings \*\* in short Jesus did not exist, nor did Judas, nor did any of the bible figures\*\* And for 900 years it was forbidden [sometimes on pain of death] to even hint that all these religous personages and tales of derring do were untue and false. What the…? Could you provide a citation for this? Or examples? Beginning with the 11th century especially, with the Crusades, more and more original sources from antiquity came into the west…and by the Renaissance there was practically great competition to see who could recover and discover ancient (non-Christian) texts long since thought lost, and they were eagerly received by scholars. Perhaps you are thinking of the unfortunate trend in the 4th and 5th centuries as monks were put to work copying scrolls to books, and some classical and ancient texts were lost during this transition. Unless I’m being whoosed?.. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/129 "2004-08-05T22:58:21Z")
Apologies if this was already mentioned (I didn’t see it): Captain (acting Major) William Martin, [The Man Who Never Was](http://africanhistory.about.com/library/prm/blmanwhoneverwas2.htm). Incidentally, “see books” is my favorite cite ever. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2004, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/130 "2004-08-05T23:11:59Z")
> [@APB](#): > > Actually, Macpherson didn’t invent Ossian, merely (most of?) the poems he attributed to someone who was already thought to be an historical figure. Not that the ‘historical’ Ossian need have been a real person either. I did not say that MacPherson “invented” Ossian. I was well aware that Ossian was a name that had genuinely come down from antiquity, whoever the putative original owner of that name may have been. I said that MacPherson “hoaxed” Ossian, which is precisely what he did. He published his own poems claiming that they were translations from the ancient Ossian, whose lost manuscripts he and he alone had been able to find. Another notable literary hoax, one that qualifies for this thread, was perpetrated by Washington Irving in 1809. At the time, there were no famous American authors, and Americans read books imported from England. Irving was determined to make his name as the first American author. To work up some notoriety for himself, he began publishing notices in the newspaper that an old man named “Diedrich Knickerbocker” had left behind a manuscript in hotel room but was now missing and described the pretended search for him. Finally he printed an obituary that poor old Knickerbocker had died, alas. Knickerbocker’s manuscript was then published. This is how the _History of New-York_ and _Rip Van Winkle_ first came out. They sold well enough that Irving eventually revealed his own authorship, and by then he had demonstrated the ability of an American to establish himself on the literary scene. ---
**Author:** ![SpectBrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@SpectBrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpectBrain)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/131 "2004-08-06T01:11:20Z")
Here’s an obscure one: Lazlo Woodbine ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2004, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/132 "2004-08-06T10:49:14Z")
**Jomo Mojo** , the thread is about ‘Famous People Who NEVER Existed’. Macpherson was making false claims about someone who did exist (or rather, whose possible non-existance was not then the issue). ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/133 "2004-08-07T18:15:48Z")
“Possible nonexistence” is good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/134 "2004-08-07T22:01:51Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > A girl in my highschool once piped up in history class, “Mr. P., have you ever visited Uncle Tom’s cabin?” > ::stunned silence:: > “Um, no…you do realize that…” > “Because my boyfriend said he went there on a vacation trip with his parents.” > We all cried. Perhaps the boyfriend and his family had been to [Dresden, Ontario.](http://www.chatham-kent.ca/recreation+and+tourism/heritage+and+museums/uncle+toms+historic+site/Visit+Uncle+Toms+Cabin.htm) ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/135 "2004-08-07T22:12:26Z")
Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer was created by Robert May, who worked for the advertising department of Montgomery Ward’s department stores. You’ll see Robert May’s name in the credits of the Rankin-Bass animated special that’s on TV every Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/136 "2004-08-07T23:46:11Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer was created by Robert May, who worked for the advertising department of Montgomery Ward’s department stores. > > You’ll see Robert May’s name in the credits of the Rankin-Bass animated special that’s on TV every Christmas. This puts me in mind of Stan Freberg’s record “Green Chri$tma$.” According to Freberg’s autobiography, a New York area DJ who played that during the holiday season was fired by his station–on orders from the sales department. Mammon. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2004, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/137 "2004-08-08T10:03:50Z")
For ‘Famous People Who Never Existed’ there are sure a lot here who I have never heard of. Back to the dumb doper thread. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/138 "2004-08-27T22:13:07Z")
There is a baseball card rarer than that of Honus Wagner: That of Joe Shlabotnik. That’s because he was so bad a player, every kid except one who had one ripped it up. ---
**Author:** ![LifeOnWry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/96bed5/32.png) [@LifeOnWry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LifeOnWry)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/139 "2004-08-28T00:22:50Z")
Kaspar Hauser? ---
**Author:** ![beth623](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@beth623](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beth623)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586/140 "2004-08-28T01:48:07Z")
Sherlock Holmes, even his street adress does not exist(I know I looked) What about that guy in all the Clancy novels? Can’t think of his name. The March sisters. > [@ralph124c](#): > > I was inspired to write this thread by the PEI thread. There seem to be a number of very famous people who actually never existed…and as time goes on, the number of people who belive in them seems to increase! Many of these people have houses, monuments, etc., that have become tourista attracyions. Some samples: > -HEIDI (Switzerland): A character in a 19th century child’s story, Heidi is so popular that there are TWO Swiss villages that claim her! Tho house-museums, for atotally fictional character! > -Anne of Green Gables: many japanese highscholl students seem to think she actually existed; you can visit her "house"on Prince Edward Island > -Sherlock Holmes: fictional character, still gets mail! > Any otherers? seems to me that once a legend is established, it is pretty hard to dispute it. Anyway, has anyone claimed to actually “meet” a fictional character? 😕 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/famous-people-who-never-existed/257586.md?page=8)