# Fanboys, shut the hell up about LOTR! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2003, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549 "2003-12-17T16:24:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/61 "2003-12-18T03:03:24Z")
Takin’ on the LOTR fanboyz! You have huge balls gobear, and they’d better be brass ones too! ---
**Author:** ![Delly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Delly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delly)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/62 "2003-12-18T03:06:19Z")
Well said Gobear, people bringing up changes in the movies have always irritated me, theres only one I dont like. The next time someone comes along complaining about Jackson’s changes, instead of getting annoyed just simply remind them that its a movie **based** on a book. Ive said that lots in the last day or so, maye it will eventually sink in, I mean after all, it is the in the ending credits! However in saying that, I dont agree wth your analysis of the books at all. They are excellant pieces of work. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/63 "2003-12-18T04:08:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FaerieBeth \* > **That would have been Glorfindel. I always kinda liked Glorfindel, but having him pop up for one scene in a 9 hour trilogy would have been just…weird? I am very happy with Jackson’s vision.** You know, I just have this odd vision of Glorfindel riding out of Rivendell on his pretty horsie with all the tinkling bells… …and then Arwen leaps out from behind a bush, knocks him off his horse, ties him up, steals his sword and horse, and leaves him in a tree. “Bugger off, old man,” she says. “I’m going to save the day _this_ time. Besides, I glow prettier than you.” 😃 Seriously? I’m enough of a fangirl that I notice the little weird things. And there’s things I would have changed in most of the movies. But – but but but! I love them immensely and think PJ’s done a better job than anyone else would’ve been allowed to do. It could have been so, so, so horrible…and it ended up being luminously beautiful. Elves at Helm’s Deep? Well, it didn’t happen in the books, but PJ made it work. (I would have had severe stomach upset if he’d brought Arwen there, though. Too much grrl power.) The fact that Peter Jackson managed to make changes to the plots that die-hard fans (like yours truly) can look at and say “Not canonical, but not bad either” is a very good sign for him. He knew what changes to make, what things to leave out, what things to add…I’ve got differences of opinion here and there, but I can definitely appreciate the films for what they are – _films_. I know plenty of fanboys, though, who are utterly enraged about the (in my opinion) teensiest little things, to the point that they don’t enjoy the movies. Sucks to be them. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Serpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@Silver\_Serpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Serpentine)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/64 "2003-12-18T10:47:08Z")
I haven’t read any of the books because, frankly, I haven’t been interested in them. UNTIL I saw the movies. After I see RotK, I’ll read them. But it’s kind of fun not knowing what’s gonna happen, which I wouldn’t have going for me if I’d memorized the books. Or even read them. As it is, I have NO idea what’s gonna happen in the 3rd one. None at all. And that’s kind of fun. My favorite part of the movies so far? The Ents. I wish there were more Ent scenes. Man, they rock. And if FanBoys think what PJ did with these movies were bad, tell them to first read Vampire Lestat and Queen of the Damned by Anne Rice, then go watch QotD on video. The WORST book to movie I’ve EVER seen. Ever. It’s atrocious. _shudder_ ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/65 "2003-12-18T11:09:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*Takin’ on the LOTR fanboyz! You have huge balls gobear, and they’d better be brass ones too! \*\* Or mithril. ---
**Author:** ![bifar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bifar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bifar)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/66 "2003-12-18T11:22:10Z")
Woohooo! I can never argue enough about LOTR book/film. They out to do a Prime Minister’s Question Time about it. Anyway, I think we should all be grateful that out of those most bookish of books PJ has created the most filmic of films. I am in complete agreement with **Fish** about this. Every single one of the changes were done for filmic reasons (some more obviously than others). Some changes, if PJ et al had had more time (and they admit this, on the commentaries), would have been done differently, but they still would have been filmic. Another issue is that LOTR is a big old mish-mash of stuff, and some bits suit certain media better than others. Ginormous battles, for example, are made for film. Nuff said. Frodo and Sam wandering around a load of rocks with Gollum isn’t very visual but is ideally suited for radio (which is why I like this bit best in the BBC Radio version). This is a film, so PJ had to make it all filmic. Okay, so I’m sick of the word ‘filmic’ now. But you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/67 "2003-12-18T11:25:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Malthus \* > Much of the carping is, in addition, a form of praise - as in, “I am so angry about [some minor scene], I had to see the movie another five times to ensure that I honed my knowledge of all of its minutae exactly right - so I would know exactly what I was angry about!”. > > If the movies were truly bad, no-one would be carping about minutae - they just wouldn’t be watching. FWIW, last Christmas my sister gave me the DVD of FOTR. I _still_ haven’t been able to watch more than the first half-hour. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/68 "2003-12-18T11:53:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astro \* > \*\*Takin’ on the LOTR fanboyz! You have huge balls gobear, and they’d better be brass ones too! \*\* Enh, what are they going to do? Shatter his self-esteem by flaming him in philologically-analyzed Quenyan? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/69 "2003-12-18T11:59:33Z")
It’s hard to be offended by Tolkien nerds; they, like any other fundamentalist, are more to be pitied than censured. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/70 "2003-12-18T13:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Yumanite \* > \*\* While I thought they LOTR were great, and I’m looking forward to the next one, there are some thinks I just don’t like about 'em. The music, for one. I’m disappointed that, after the incredible and detailed visual treatment, they put a lame-ass soundtrack that might as well have been from “Last of the Mohicans” ('tho it had a bit more Enya). It would never bother me if I weren’t so impressed with the rest of the movie. \*\* :eek: I love the movies (like I loved the book), and the music is magnificent. I keep on playing the soundtracks in my car to and from work. Gollums song is one of the best songs ever. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/71 "2003-12-18T14:08:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*Can you imagine a singing, dancing Sauron, and his cute little animal pal, doing a happy little musical number? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: \*\* Now see…_that_ would NEVER work. **Sauron** can’t dance to save his life. He has that whole white boy/no rhythm thing down pat. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/72 "2003-12-18T14:20:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aries28 \* > \*\*Now see…_that_ would NEVER work. **Sauron** can’t dance to save his life. He has that whole white boy/no rhythm thing down pat. 😉 \*\* Considering that Morgoth sang out of tune, and Sauron being his servant, I thin Sauron is too, tune-deaf. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/73 "2003-12-18T14:34:35Z")
Yeah, but I thought Morgoth did it on purpose, not because he was tone deaf. He was sort of the John Coltrane of the Valar. I think Sauron could sing in tune if he wished. ---
**Author:** ![Aries28](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Aries28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aries28)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/74 "2003-12-18T14:35:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by LostCause \* > \*\*Considering that Morgoth sang out of tune, and Sauron being his servant, I thin Sauron is too, tune-deaf. \*\* Hmmm…that would explain the off-key singing in the car… It all makes sense now. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/75 "2003-12-18T14:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\*…mentioned by **Polycarp** > > Imagine the disaster these movies would be if someone like Michael Bay or James Cameron …or any other of the studio golden boys had been handed the reins. > > \*\* Imagine If **Lord of the Rings** had been written by someone else! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/76 "2003-12-18T14:48:29Z")
One thing you apologists can’t close your eyes and explain away is the scene where Frodo almost gives the ring to the Nazgul in TTT. That opens up an unnecessary Mack truck sized plot hole where Sauron knows that Frodo has the ring and where it is. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/77 "2003-12-18T14:54:10Z")
> [@](#): > > One thing you apologists can’t close your eyes and explain away is the scene where Frodo almost gives the ring to the Nazgul in TTT. That opens up an unnecessary Mack truck sized plot hole where Sauron knows that Frodo has the ring and where it is. Not really. Clearly, the ring is trying to get back to Sauron, but there is no indication that Sauron knows that Frodo has the ring ro that the nazgul knew what Frodo was doing on the parapet. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/78 "2003-12-18T14:59:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Not really. Clearly, the ring is trying to get back to Sauron, but there is no indication that Sauron knows that Frodo has the ring ro that the nazgul knew what Frodo was doing on the parapet. \*\* Another possible explanation - this achieve the same thing as Pippin looking into the palantir - Sauron thought that Gondor **has** the ring. Which also meant to say Pippin looking into the palantir in ROTK is of less significant except that he didn’t spill the beans, informed Sauron that there’s more than one Hobbit, that there’s still a heir of Isludr and possiblity just because PJ need to whisk Pippin to Minas Tirth. ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/79 "2003-12-18T15:02:10Z")
Meh. The 1978 animated LOTR beats them all! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549/80 "2003-12-18T15:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Satasha \* > \*\*One thing you apologists can’t close your eyes and explain away is the scene where Frodo almost gives the ring to the Nazgul in TTT. That opens up an unnecessary Mack truck sized plot hole where Sauron knows that Frodo has the ring and where it is. \*\* First off: I agree with you on this point. This, along with Aragorn falling off the cliff, are two of the changes that, frankly, just aren’t necessary. However, one could argue that although the Nazgul obviously knows where the Ring is at that point, the assumption would be that the Ring is being taken to Gondor to help in the war (since Osgiliath is basically a hop, skip and jump from Minas Tirith). On preview, as an answer to **gobear** : I think it has to be obvious the Nazgul knew the Ring was right in front of him on the parapet, when Frodo was holding it. The Ring acts as a beacon to the creatures – in both FOTR and TTT, it’s indicated the Nazgul can sense the Ring from a good distance away. However, he couldn’t see Frodo on the parapet unless Frodo put on the Ring, which Sam prevented. Yeah, I know, there’s no point to the scene. We already know Frodo is being corrupted by the Ring, and is falling under its power, so there’s not really a reason to show that again. But from an internal logic standpoint, the scene doesn’t discount the rest of the story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanboys-shut-the-hell-up-about-lotr/219549.md?page=5)