# Fanfiction That Makes Baby Jesus Cry **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 2, 2002, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985 "2002-06-02T03:47:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Potter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Potter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Potter)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/41 "2002-06-03T02:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jurhael \* > \*\*To elaborate even further, a diary would be for yourself. Or anything that’s private. Anything that goes public goes beyond “for me”, IMO. > > Course that’s just me. eheheh… > > I can’t be the only one that thinks this way…??? \*\* No, you’re right. Even a diary is written for an audience, albeit a small one. It is nigh-on-impossible to write totally unself-conciously, without a thought for the effect your words will have, even if it’s for your eyes only. There’s a little internal censor, the bullshit chip, it’s difficult to bypass and is what causes writers’ block (you can tell it’s working when you look at every damn word you just wrote thinking “wow, this is bullshit”). Even when the words are flowing from your fingers as if they are completely disregarding your brain, there is a mental process going on, watching your words, considering their weight. It’s happening while I write this post, and is telling me I sound like a dork. It always does that so I’ll ignore it for now… Your point is too simplistic. You could say, as I just did, that every word written (just as with spoken words) is there for an audience. Produced for an audience, even. However, even if something is written specifically for an audience of millions, it doesn’t mean that you are not writing purely because the act gives you pleasure. Hence, writing it for yourself. I’ve read some great fic. I’ve read some _really_ bad fic. All I see is people being into what they are doing for their own purposes and needs, but also enjoying that they can share it with others and find out if it was a good experience for somebody else other than themselves. As I said in my earlier post, I do not get feedback. I don’t have the support of an instant community of like-minded people. So it is very much a one-way street for me, and what do I do? Keep writing because I need to, I want to, and because I probably get more out of it than any poor sod trawling through my turgid prose. I write very much for me, but in the simple act of telling a story, I also write to be read. The one does not exclude the other. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/42 "2002-06-03T03:58:22Z")
Maybe you fanfic people can help me. I once read a series of absolutely hilarious MSTings of Harry Potter slash and I want to find them again. The premise was that Harry, Ron, Hermione and Draco had detention, and their punishment was to read slash fanfic about themselves. They were on the [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net) site, but they had a notation at the top that they were moving, as that site was not allowing MSTings anymore… ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/43 "2002-06-03T04:04:03Z")
(btw, those examples in the OP made me almost choke I laughed so hard! Please share the link at least for that last one! I MUST read the rest! LOL) ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/44 "2002-06-03T04:11:33Z")
I confess - I’m currently writing fanfiction, specifically Tolkien (Silmarillion based) fanfiction, AND am posting it on [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net) (authorname is Ithilwen there). Sure, a lot of fanfiction is poorly-written, but that’s just a reflection of Sturgeon’s Law, 90% of everything is crap. Many of the writers of the worst fics are young, and writing to feed their egos. If they keep at it, they’ll eventually out grow the Mary Sue phase and may begin to produce better work. Let’s be charitable towards them. As for me, I post my fics because I am NOT simply writing for my own pleasure - I hope other people will also enjoy what I’ve created, and I’m specifically trying to fill in “holes” left by Tolkien in his works. If you do like what I write, great! If not - well, it’s not like you’re going to suffer any permanent harm by reading a story that doesn’t work for you, any more than you do when you go to the movies and see a film you don’t care for. Oh, and Lesath, I think you’ll find when it comes to Tolkien fanfics, the Silmarillion-based fics are generally of higher quality than the LoTR based ones for some reason (perhaps because many of the writers of the latter have only seen the movie). Does anyone besides me think that this qualifies as one of the stranger Pit rants posted? Neat, but strange! ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/45 "2002-06-03T04:16:42Z")
I confess - I’m currently writing fanfiction, specifically Tolkien (Silmarillion based) fanfiction, AND am posting it on [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net) (authorname is Ithilwen there). Sure, a lot of fanfiction is poorly-written, but that’s just a reflection of Sturgeon’s Law, 90% of everything is crap. Many of the writers of the worst fics are young, and writing to feed their egos. If they keep at it, they’ll eventually out grow the Mary Sue phase and may begin to produce better work. Let’s be charitable towards them. As for me, I post my fics because I am NOT simply writing for my own pleasure - I hope other people will also enjoy what I’ve created, and I’m specifically trying to fill in “holes” left by Tolkien in his works. If you do like what I write, great! If not - well, it’s not like you’re going to suffer any permanent harm by reading a story that doesn’t work for you, any more than you do when you go to the movies and see a film you don’t care for. Oh, and Lesath, I think you’ll find when it comes to Tolkien fanfics, the Silmarillion-based fics are generally of higher quality than the LoTR based ones for some reason (perhaps because many of the writers of the latter have only seen the movie). Does anyone besides me think that this qualifies as one of the stranger Pit rants posted? Neat, but strange! ---
**Author:** ![Lesath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/df788c/32.png) [@Lesath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lesath)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/46 "2002-06-03T04:29:43Z")
**OpalCat** , here’s the [link](http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=537550) to the last fic. And you’re right, **artemis** , some of the Silmarillion based fics have really made my jaw drop. I’ll go read yours sometime soon, as I’m dead tired now and can’t focus my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/47 "2002-06-03T04:31:42Z")
This is a little different from the bad fanfic stories the rest of you have been telling, but I must Share My Pain. One morning, not so very long ago, I was feeling very bored. I decided to turn to my old buddy the Internet for entertainment. After reading my e-mail, favorite webcomics, and the SDMB, I still had some time to kill before brunch. For some reason I recalled that I had heard somewhere that Iggy Pop had once been a guest star on an episode of _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_. I’d never seen _DS9_, but I like Iggy Pop, and was struck by a sudden curiosity to see what he looked like as an alien\*. I decided to run a quick Google search, feeling confident that I’d soon turn up plenty of photos. After all, this was _Star Trek_, and finding _Star Trek_ stuff on the Internet is like finding hay in a haystack. In retrospect, I feel I should have known enough to realize that some of that hay was going to be pretty freaking nasty. My search turned up a lot of things like episode guides and lists of guest stars, but long before I found the pictures I was looking for I found the fanfic. Maybe half a dozen stories, by several different authors. I don’t know what I found more disturbing, the fact that this was bad, violent slash porn, or the fact that it was about a character who had no more than a few minutes of screen time in a single episode of the show. And I don’t think it was because these people were big Iggy Pop fans either. I don’t think they even knew who he was. They all just seemed to have a big thing for the particular species of alien that his character was a member of. Making things even weirder, I gathered that it is _DS9_ canon that this species of alien reproduces entirely by cloning. Silly me, I would have taken this to mean that members of this species never have sex at all, but these fanfic authors took it as a sign that they do practically nothing in their spare time _but_ have horrible, bizarre, poorly written sex. \*Purple. ---
**Author:** ![ratty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@ratty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratty)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/48 "2002-06-03T04:47:56Z")
Hmmm… how to comment on this? Well, I agree that anything that gets people writing and enjoying it is a good thing. And there is something cute about fanfic Mary Sues in a horrible, squirmy way. But OTOH, there’s something very painful and humiliating about reading people’s fantasies. It always feels to me like a violation, like something I really wasn’t meant to see, and this despite the fact that the fanfic is willingly and eagerly submitted to internet sites. I’ve read some fanfiction, and some of it feels like just for fun, and some of it feels like a neophyte writer testing their skills with pre-fab characters and situations, a write-by-numbers, if you will. And then there is that subset of fanfiction that is gut-freezingly weird and evil, in which a fantasy-prone and lovelorn teenager has vomited up her darkest desires and exposed herself in an obscene literary fashion. Some of these Mary Sues just make me cringe internally, like the ones exerpted above. There’s just such a sense of unfulfilled yearnings there, such a pathetic reach for “higher things” that classmates and parents “just don’t understand”. And creating a character that is oneself, stripped of one’s inadequacies and failings, and transformed into one’s fantasy ideal, then inserting said uber-doppelganger into a much-loved and equally lamented fantasy world, is some sort of post-modern Freudian-driven coup of I’m not sure what proportions. So I read this incredibly bad fanfic because I am at heart a sort of emotional masochist, and this is what I see in these Mary Sues: I see young people, mainly girls, sad and lonely and feeling misunderstood, identifying more with fictional characters than their fellow men. “_Fuck_ my stupid Englsih teacher! He just doesn’t get it! _sigh_ Oh, why, why was I born into this world, this time? I belong in Middle-Earth, where my super talents and breath-taking beauty will finally be appreciated! And I won’t ever have to go to first-period PE again! _sigh_ Oh, Legolas, only you could truly understand me! I know you would fall instantly in love with my Bonnie Bell-glossed lips and my cute, Hello Kitty-barretted hair! _sigh_” It all smacks of really, really bad pretentious goth poetry, which is another emotionally horrifying literary genre. And yet I am drawn to both, I seize on terrifically bad writing with a fiendish glee, knowing the soul-rending embarassment for these naive and trusting authors will come. Oh yes, it will come. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/49 "2002-06-03T05:19:31Z")
Lesath: I’ve just begun reading the link and OH. MY. GOD. Before the story even starts we have the following horrifying bit: > [@](#): > > Oh hey everyone I have decided to write LOTHR fic! I have been reading the books and I have seen the movie 3 times and I found out that they cut out a large hunk! I’m not sure how much of this story is going to be in my mine though! Also I have decided to make my character from other story to help me write this you can tell she is in a good mood when her eyes are green and her hair is auburn and when she is mad upset or angry Her eyes are purple and hair is black. > > Aria: (green eyes) Hello! I love Lord of the Rings! Rose and I love Legolas he is our favorite! > > Icerose82: (sighs dreamily and gray eyes sparkle) yes he is very fine. > > Aria: puts on glasses and reads from paper Rose doesn’t own Lord of the rings and most likely never will please stop rubbing it our nose thank you. > > Icerose82 btw this chapter is mostly going to explain her just before she came to middle earth. Age 17. Also she is a little like me in appearance although not much just little things. ---
**Author:** ![mazirian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mazirian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazirian)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/50 "2002-06-03T05:25:31Z")
And I thought this thread was about the Fab Four of Hacks: Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/51 "2002-06-03T07:27:54Z")
So, anyone got a link to what they think of as an example of good fanfiction? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/52 "2002-06-03T08:04:54Z")
[I like the stuff here](http://spoof.maison-otaku.net/) (Warning some of it’s…naughty.) Lemon Sherbert is one of the funniest things I ever read. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/53 "2002-06-03T12:29:42Z")
[This is Helmboy’s very long Voyager story Canaan Land.](http://gondor.adsl.dk/helmboy/canaan_land.htm) (Warning! The story contains m/m and f/f erotica, although there is none actually on the page I linked to.) It deals with a conspiracy against Voyager after they return. This is EXACTLY the sort of stuff I would have loved to see on the series, even without the slash. 😉 And it won several fanfic awards. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/54 "2002-06-03T12:52:00Z")
I never actually read fanfic before yesterday. To be honest, I didn’t saw the point. But I was curious, thanks to this thread, and I read a few of those god awful fan fic stories. They do indeed live up to their name: they are so god awful they make me glad I’m agnostic so that I don’t truly realize the depths to which god can be awful. Nevertheless, it’s also got me interested. Can I do better? Oh sure, a blind masturbating monkey could bang out better prose with his feet, but how much better can I do? So I’ve decided to write one. I have no idea on what yet. Probably ST:TNG. So I’m wondering where a good place to post it would be when I’m finished. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/55 "2002-06-03T13:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Enderw24 \* > \*\*I never actually read fanfic before yesterday. To be honest, I didn’t saw the point. But I was curious, thanks to this thread, and I read a few of those god awful fan fic stories. They do indeed live up to their name: they are so god awful they make me glad I’m agnostic so that I don’t truly realize the depths to which god can be awful. > Nevertheless, it’s also got me interested. Can I do better? Oh sure, a blind masturbating monkey could bang out better prose with his feet, but how much better can I do? > So I’ve decided to write one. I have no idea on what yet. Probably ST:TNG. So I’m wondering where a good place to post it would be when I’m finished. \*\* Here, please. So we can all read it. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/56 "2002-06-03T13:34:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Silentgoldfish \* > \*\*So, anyone got a link to what they think of as an example of good fanfiction? \*\* I’m probably going to regret this, but here’s the link to my authorpage at [fanfiction.net](http://fanfiction.net). [Ithilwen’s authorpage](http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=197536) Most of what I write won’t make any sense if you haven’t read J. R. R. Tolkien’s _The Silmarillion_ , but “The Choice” should be comprehensible if you’ve ever read the Appendices at the end of _The Lord of the Rings_ . The Maedhros stories should be read in the order I’ve numbered them in, or they might not make much sense. Feel free to flame away! I’ve got a tough hide. artemis, sometime fanfic writer ---
**Author:** ![king\_of\_spain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7cd45c/32.png) [@king\_of\_spain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/king_of_spain)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/57 "2002-06-03T14:33:03Z")
If you’re frustrated with LOTR Mary Sue fic, you’ll probably enjoy this: [Nine Men and a Little Lady](http://www.subreality.com/marysue/nmaall.htm) ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/58 "2002-06-03T16:01:45Z")
There’s also RealPerson fic, which can be something of a nightmare and something interesting all at the same time… [There](http://there.indyramp.com/), for example, which is Duran Duran fan fiction. There’s also the RealPerson Fic archive, but I don’t have their URL any more. ---
**Author:** ![SisterCoyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@SisterCoyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SisterCoyote)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/59 "2002-06-03T16:18:06Z")
Hm. The archive is down for the time being, but I did stumble across the following site: [The Fan Fiction Directory](http://www.fanficweb.net/directory/) Which is really kinda scaring me. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2002, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985/60 "2002-06-03T17:03:44Z")
OK, it is posted here: [http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=814599](http://www.fanfiction.net/read.php?storyid=814599) I’m not reproducing the story in this thread for two reasons. 1. I don’t want to hijack this thread any more than I already have. 2. I don’t want to contribute to the hijacking of this thread by having everyone and their mothers say “oooh, let me post _my_ story here too!” However, if you truly feel that my story makes baby Jesus cry, you can probably comment in this thread without hijacking it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fanfiction-that-makes-baby-jesus-cry/111985.md?page=4)