# Fans of "The Wire" -- what didn't work for you? Open spoilers! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743 "2011-08-06T16:37:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/21 "2011-08-07T16:08:48Z")
I always felt Marlo was a big step down from Avon & Stringer. Those two had believable motivations whereas Marlo just seemed evil for evil’s sake. I know he’s supposed to represent the new class of criminal, but it didn’t work for me. Further, he didn’t really seem that smart when doing things like bringing down the New Day Co-op. If it wasn’t for Chris and Snoop, I don’t think I would’ve bought Marlo’s dominance in the last couple of seasons ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/22 "2011-08-07T16:09:26Z")
His name is his name! ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/23 "2011-08-07T16:24:19Z")
Marlo is probably the closest thing to a psychopath we had on the series. He was spellbinding. It would have been nice to have some background on him, but he just suddenly appeared. He’s like that piece of true evil from Time Bandits. Loved him. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/24 "2011-08-07T17:23:22Z")
> [@Tarwater](#): > > His only failing as an editor was missing the significance of Omar’s death, and he could hardly be blamed for that. He also missed the even more significant death of Proposition Joe. Simon listed several other stories that Gus as City Editor missed as well, implying that his saintly portrayal covered a deeper, subtle failure. But I tend to agree that if that was the intent it was _too_ subtle and said failures are easily passed off on the obvious villains at the top. Season 5 was good TV IMO. It was just a relative failure compared to the rest of the show’s run. The plagiarism wasn’t a bad storyline per se - it was just ham-handed. Gus was too obviously perfect as above. The false serial killer plot I DO sort of buy, as I think Lester and McNulty have just the right personalities to fall into the nonsense - but it too was telegraphed a bit too broadly. In general I think it all works, but not in the seamless way earlier seasons did. It became more of a quality, but still standard Police Procedural, rather than a show that transcended the genre. Still worth the slog though. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/25 "2011-08-07T19:39:53Z")
> [@alexandra](#): > > The plagiarism storyline has been done better elsewhere (e.g., Shattered Glass) whereas there are arguably more important, though less sensationalist, storylines to tell about journalism which haven’t been explored through fiction. They could have told the story of how political pressure and good-old-boy politics affect the newsroom. For example when an editor is drinking buddies with a figure facing negative coverage. Or they could have told the story of advertiser pressures brought to bear to try to bury stories. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/26 "2011-08-07T19:54:15Z")
What’s all this everyone’s saying about plagiarism? I don’t remember any plagiarism in season 5; just fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/27 "2011-08-08T04:31:30Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Brother Mouzzoune (I’m sure i spelled that wrong) was a cartoon character in a realistic story, completely out of place. I always felt like Brother Mouzoune, Snoop, and Omar (and to a lesser extent maybe Stringer) were written as folk heroes (or anti-heroes). Their stories were told the way they’d be told down the road by people in the neighborhood or in the game, with personality quirks exaggerated and somewhat fantastical details relayed as fact. I thought this worked really well. You might think of Hamsterdam the same way. It’s easy to imagine the story of a cop who got canned for going a little overboard with selective enforcement getting filtered through ten years of retelling in cop bars until it becomes the legend of a crazy motherfucker named Bunny who just gave a whole section of town over to the dealers. The fake serial killer didn’t work for me at all. I also didn’t like the way that every bit of McNulty’s growth as a character just unraveled in Season 5. It also pulled me out a little bit every time a large group of drug dealers had a meeting in a hotel meeting room, though I have no doubt that it has happened. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/28 "2011-08-08T13:41:03Z")
> [@Prox](#): > > I always felt Marlo was a big step down from Avon & Stringer. Those two had believable motivations whereas Marlo just seemed evil for evil’s sake. I know he’s supposed to represent the new class of criminal, but it didn’t work for me. Further, he didn’t really seem that smart when doing things like bringing down the New Day Co-op. If it wasn’t for Chris and Snoop, I don’t think I would’ve bought Marlo’s dominance in the last couple of seasons I thought this the first time I watched the series. Stringer and Barksdale seemed to have more character, and I didn’t understand Marlo’s motivation. The second time however, I loved Marlo. His motivation is street respect, being the king. And he works toward this coldly and ruthlessly. Two great scenes with him include the one with Bodie (“What’s your name again? Bony, Biddy?”, “You know my name”, “Yeah… Now here’s the thing.”) and the already mentioned “My name is my name”. In that second scene we see what Marlo truly cares about, and how he has been actually holding back the entire series. If it wasn’t for Chris and Snoop, he would’ve had some other qualified soldiers. I think Snoop was actually mostly just in training when the character was first introduced. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/29 "2011-08-09T00:58:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Snoop was basically playing herself. [No kidding](http://www.accessatlanta.com/celebrities-tv/wire-actress-pleads-guilty-1087518.html?cxntlid=thbz_hm): > [@](#): > > An actress who played a Baltimore drug gang assassin in HBO’s “The Wire” pleaded guilty Monday to conspiring to distribute heroin, caught by a wiretap in a joint federal-state drug probe of an alleged drug gang. > > Felicia “Snoop” Pearson, 31, pleaded guilty to conspiracy to distribute heroin, a day before her trial was set to begin. ---
**Author:** ![clarkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/439d5e/32.png) [@clarkstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clarkstar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/30 "2011-08-09T01:25:00Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > [No kidding](http://www.accessatlanta.com/celebrities-tv/wire-actress-pleads-guilty-1087518.html?cxntlid=thbz_hm): how do you serve 5 years for 2nd degree murder? wtf is wrong with our justice system ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/31 "2011-08-09T01:27:54Z")
> [@clarkstar](#): > > how do you serve 5 years for 2nd degree murder? wtf is wrong with our justice system She was a juvenile. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/32 "2011-08-09T01:35:50Z")
It’s kind of surreal reading the article and seeing how “Snoop” was caught on a wire conspiring with a major Baltimore drug gang to buy and distribute heroin by a Baltimore PD special detail. The veil between fiction and reality is so thin there. I almost expected them to mention McNulty and Bunk. ---
**Author:** ![Prox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@Prox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prox)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/33 "2011-08-09T02:55:42Z")
I get that Marlo was very concerned with his name, but that seems like such a Hollywood motivation compared to Avon and Stringer who had actual goals to accomplish. It seemed Marlo made decisions more because it made the plot more interesting than any character reason. Maybe when I watch it again, it’ll work better. After all, I’m clearly in the minority here. And I agree the serial killer & newspaper wasn’t too believable. All in all, I found the last season to be a pretty clear step down from the earlier seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/34 "2011-08-09T03:28:19Z")
Marlo is has a pathological need for dominance. His decisions are all driven by that need. He doesn’t care about the money, it’s the need to dominate others. Even when he is a fully laundered, “legit,” millionaire “businessman” (the thing that Stringer always wanted to be, but never achieved) he is bored by it, and has to go start a fight with some street kids get the ego rush that he needs. All his decisions make perfect sense when you see that he isn’t operating from a business motive, but from his need to dominate others. even trivial slights to him (like the security guard who “talks back” to him at the convenience store) are responded to with a ruthlessness that almost borders on panic. Disrespect is intolerable to him. ---
**Author:** ![quixotic78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/3ab097/32.png) [@quixotic78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quixotic78)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/35 "2011-08-09T04:09:57Z")
> [@Prox](#): > > After all, I’m clearly in the minority here. I’m with you too, though. Yeah, Marlo was cold-blooded, and he’s a decent character, but kind of one-dimensional. Stringer Bell, on the other hand, was just an amazing character. Barksdale didn’t do much for me as a character either, but he’s hard to separate from Stringer, so he gets some reflected awesomeness. What didn’t work for me was how they just totally moved on from the Dock plot of Season 2 like it was a fart in church. I mean, yeah, the Greek and Vondas carried over, and we learned that is where Prop Joe (who is also awesome) gets his good dope right off of the boat, but other than that, they hardly mention that plot at all. I think they show a poster of Frank Sobotka at the end of Season 3, and some of the dockworkers are yelling at Andy Krawchick (sp) in Season 5, but that’s it. It’s a fine season – not the best, but fine – but it was like the show’s producers were ashamed of it or something. Didn’t sit well with me. Oh, one other criticism, as long as I’m here. The first four seasons were amazing at drawing parallels between the bullshit on the street, in the police department, in the legal system, in schools, and in politics. It wasn’t quite subtle; understated is a better word, but there for the taking. But in Season 5, they decide to just go balls out and have both McNulty and Templeton making the same shit up. It was lazy writing, the kind of bullshit serendipity that is totally out of place for a show of The Wire’s caliber. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/36 "2011-08-09T05:01:14Z")
I dunno, I actually found Marlo a more believable character than Stringer Bell. (Really? A heroin dealer is taking business classes to improve his operation? _Really?_) Marlo’s motivation of having his name “ring out” on the streets struck me as a much more likely motivator for somebody running this kind of operation, and his actions seemed more realistic to me than those of Stringer Bell. Actually, though, Proposition Joe struck me as the most realistic kingpin of them all. Just the right mix of street smarts and business savvy. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/37 "2011-08-09T05:26:17Z")
I think both Marlo and Stringer were credible characters. The drug business is big; plenty of room for figures such as these to arise, even if they’re atypical. Stringer was based in part on Kenny Jackson, who did take classes at BCC while involved in illicit dealings. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/38 "2011-08-09T17:28:54Z")
Obvious to everyone here that it was truly an excellent series! I have to admit that often I couldn’t understand the dialogue - mumbling and slang - and some of it could have used some subtitles! I started to understand more as the series moved along, but it really was like learning a new language. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/39 "2011-08-10T02:35:58Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Stringer was based in part on Kenny Jackson, who did take classes at BCC while involved in illicit dealings. Steven Levitt (the Freakanomics guy) has mentioned that some of his previous research on the drug trade was greatly helped by some surprisingly professional bookkeeping. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743/40 "2011-08-10T02:50:29Z")
Successfully passing off a photocopy machine as a lie detector. Apparently we should believe that street gangstas are so ignorant that they’ve never seen a copier in a school…or a rare trip to the library…a parole office…an emergency room…government building…or on TV or in a movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fans-of-the-wire-what-didnt-work-for-you-open-spoilers/591743.md?page=3)