# Fantasy and SF novels since 2000 that Might Be Essentials One Day **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 3, 2014, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569 "2014-05-03T07:10:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/41 "2014-05-05T15:53:02Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > For fantasy: > > Charles Stross’s Laundry series. I like The Jennifer Morgue best, but all of them are good. > > Jasper Fforde’s Thursday Next series. Hard to pick which one though. > > For Sci-fi: > > I’ve heard great things about [Ready Player One](http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Player-One-A-Novel/dp/0307887448) and [The Quantum Thief](http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Thief-Jean-Flambeur/dp/0765367661), but haven’t picked them up yet. Quantum Thief was interesting, I think it is an example of how you can fuck up in writing about the Singularity. It’s very easy to use the idea of godlike artificial intelligences and altered human consciousness as a springboard for what are basically fantasies or dreamlike stories. That’s kind of what “The Quantum Thief” seemed to be when I read the Amazon preview (haven’t read the whole book, but the preview was quite long.) I lose interest when that happens. I like the near-future stories that still maintain a tech edge. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/42 "2014-05-05T15:57:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think we might be blinded by the notion that literature must be books, when we’re standing at the dawn of new media. Many of the “essential works” of the 2000s might turn out to be webcomics. I can very easily see, say, _Girl Genius_ or _Shlock Mercenary_ being looked back on, someday, as “Golden Age classics”. I think MMOs may ultimately be the new medium of expression, where the player IS the character. Most people don’t have the creative muscle to create players in an open-ended game like Second Life so they play games where the plot and characters are created for you … but I predict, sooner or later people will spend their recreational time virtually living the lives of characters in stories they love – and that will be the death knell for movies, books and television. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/43 "2014-05-05T16:06:53Z")
That won’t happen until after we have computers capable of writing stories. A character in an MMO is “written” only for the author’s own consumption. What we’re looking for is an artist creating a work for consumption by others, which in a game environment would mean making each audience member the “main character”. Which requires a separate story for every person, which requires something other than human writing those stories. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/44 "2014-05-05T16:16:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That won’t happen until after we have computers capable of writing stories. A character in an MMO is “written” only for the author’s own consumption. What we’re looking for is an artist creating a work for consumption by others, which in a game environment would mean making each audience member the “main character”. Which requires a separate story for every person, which requires something other than human writing those stories. I think authors can create the framework, much like those “choose your own adventure” novels, with expert system programs making the route through the story much more lengthy and complex than in the choose your own adventure books, creating for all the players a unique story and also allowing them to interact with other actual players where their storylines intersect. Will not require computer AIs. in fact, we will probably … hell, we ARE probably … getting there by degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Evening](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Wednesday\_Evening](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wednesday_Evening)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/45 "2014-05-05T20:16:20Z")
Lots of good nominations here! I don’t see that anyone has mentioned Hugh Howey’s [Wool](http://www.amazon.com/Wool-Hugh-Howey/dp/1476733953/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1399320700&sr=1-1&keywords=wool+omnibus) (Silo Saga #1) yet. I thought it was a near-perfect combination of fascinating premise and gripping storytelling. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/46 "2014-05-05T20:24:58Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > I do like some fantasy in my fantasy. The problem I have with Joe Abercrombie is that the good guys always lose or become so twisted by fate that the “win” is meaningless. No good deed goes unpunished doesn’t make for a good fantasy. Real life is grim enough. I thought The Blade Itself was like watching Ninefingers commit murder, only the book was murdering the genre. The murder was committed enthusiastically and with admirable skill, but it was bloody and terrible and I’m not sure I’m glad I watched it happen. That said, I do think it’s a good thing that the murder occurred. Abercrombie took a lot of lazy fantasy tropes–the rough barbarian, the goodhearted wizard, the quest for the ancient artifact–and examined what they’d be like without a veneer of romance. The result was spectacular. I just recently read **The Red Country** , his fantasy-world answer to **Unforgiven**. I found it a much easier read, with much more sympathetic characters, even as each main character was a murderous bastard who probably ought to be locked up for life. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/47 "2014-05-06T05:12:33Z")
Some of Ian McDonald’s earlier work may have been mentioned in the the other thread, but his recent works (River of Gods, Brasyl, The Dervish House) are also well-regarded and bring some fresh ideas to the table. R. Scott Bakker has not yet completed his Second Apocalypse books, and I haven’t yet read all of what he has gotten around to writing. He’s not the only fantasy author with flawed protagonists and sympathetic villains. Like many other authors, he squeezes caricatures of non-Western cultures into a fantasy setting. He even borrowed one of the Crusades as a plot. Annoying, but hey, it’s fantasy. But he has a cool map and an intricate enough world history. Plus, aliens. I’m going to have to read more to see what I think about the work as a whole. Someone mentioned Stross’s Laundry books. I think they are great fun, but I’m not sure if yet another modern Lovecraft adventure has staying power. I recall Karl Schroeder’s Virga books having some original world building, a touch on the hard SF side. I won’t say more because I don’t remember what would be a spoiler or not. The story has escaped me, so perhaps there was a world-building / story-telling imbalance. It might be interesting to discuss what makes a book “essential” own the road. > [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You at least have reasons for why you dislike it, that post pulled out the “I’m too sophisticated for this childish tripe” card. YA fiction is neither childish nor tripe, at least by definition. What more, it can be accessible to those with poor reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![Specklebang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Specklebang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Specklebang)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/48 "2014-05-06T05:38:11Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > [Perdido Street Station](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perdido_Street_Station) is from 2000, so it just comes in under the bar; not sure it’s the best of Mieville’s books (I like The Scar better, though Iron Council isn’t as good; The City and The City was very good but possibly not science fiction/fantasy depending on your definitions) but it’s the first of his most famous series. I’m listening to Perdido Street Station as my current project and having read it a few years back, I see just how excellent and intriguing this book is. I also would choose The Scar as the best of them and Iron Council was - boring. I have a cat named Bellis from The Scar. > [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > I would nominate _Altered Carbon_ by Richard K. Morgan and _The Windup Girl_ by Paulo Bacigalupi. Bacigalupi’s likely to write something better in the future through; I’m not sure Morgan is. Agreed. I think Morgan’s work was terrible after Altered Carbon until his Land Fit For Heroes fantasy trilogy came out and really intrigued me. The Windup Girl is more likely to be the “classic” though. > [@Wednesday\_Evening](#): > > Lots of good nominations here! > > I don’t see that anyone has mentioned Hugh Howey’s [Wool](http://www.amazon.com/Wool-Hugh-Howey/dp/1476733953/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1399320700&sr=1-1&keywords=wool+omnibus) (Silo Saga #1) yet. I thought it was a near-perfect combination of fascinating premise and gripping storytelling. Wool is not only a great book, but Howey’s marketing success impacted publishing in a way that will continue to be recognized years from now. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/49 "2014-05-06T14:01:48Z")
> [@Specklebang](#): > > Wool is not only a great book, but Howey’s marketing success impacted publishing in a way that will continue to be recognized years from now. I have read the Amazon preview for “Wool,” the characterization is really powerful and well done and the writing is topnotch, but basically it’s a dreary story of a bunch of people trapped in a silo. Couldn’t get into it. Marketing success? Do tell? ---
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/50 "2014-05-06T17:34:08Z")
I’ll second _The Malazan Book of the Fallen_. I haven’t read them all yet but the ones I’ve read were all excellent. I’ll also side with those who were disappointed with _Old Man’s War_ - great premise, juvenile execution IMO. I’d like to nominate two novels: [Blindsight](http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm) by Peter Watts. It’s a standalone hard-sf novel of first contact featuring a post-human crew captained by a vampire traveling to outside the solar system to meet aliens. Very well written and absolutely full of ideas. It’s also available for free [here](http://www.rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htm). [Ring of Swords](http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Swords-Eleanor-Arnason/dp/0312855184/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1399397449&sr=8-1&keywords=ring+of+swords) by [Eleanor Arnason](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Arnason#Novels) It’s anthropological sf that deals with diplomacy, sexuality, theater and aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/51 "2014-05-06T18:24:01Z")
nvm ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/52 "2014-05-29T17:26:46Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Maybe Flint’s [1632](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1632_series), if only for greater exposure of it’s premise’s type of scenario, and the gargantuan _scope_ of the franchise. I got the free download of this onto my Kindle and I’ve just got around to reading it at work. I must admit, I wasn’t particularly impressed with the writing or the characterisation. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/53 "2014-05-29T17:58:28Z")
> [@Teuton](#): > > I got the free download of [1632] onto my Kindle and I’ve just got around to reading it at work. I must admit, I wasn’t particularly impressed with the writing or the characterisation. Same here, and I’m usually a sucker for time travel stories. Another one that lots of people rave about is Connie Willis’ _Doomsday Book_, which somehow won both the Hugo and Nebula. I thought it was idiotic as an SF story, although the middle part had some merit as historical fiction. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/54 "2014-05-29T18:16:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think we might be blinded by the notion that literature must be books, when we’re standing at the dawn of new media. Many of the “essential works” of the 2000s might turn out to be webcomics. I can very easily see, say, _Girl Genius_ or _Shlock Mercenary_ being looked back on, someday, as “Golden Age classics”. This is an interesting thought, given that I still feel that [Second Life](http://www.secondlife.com) is beyond any written work, ever, in terms of entertainment value and immersion. I’m working on a novel that I hope will help readers understand this. Maybe the last novel some of them will ever bother to read! Hey … wait a minute … nvm, I already responded to this post. I have also read “1632.” I found it entertaining, contrasting small town American values with those of Europe in 1632, but the plot was kind of episodic. There was a natural place where the novel SHOULD have ended, but didn’t, right after the defeat of the army outside of the German town, and I stopped reading shortly after that. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/55 "2014-05-29T19:44:16Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > There was a natural place where the novel SHOULD have ended, but didn’t, right after the defeat of the army outside of the German town, and I stopped reading shortly after that. Spoilers for the end of the book: You know how we’re told with regularity that the Croats or the Finns wouldn’t just line up for the American guns? Well… the Croats do. Massively disappointing, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/56 "2014-05-29T23:10:09Z")
The bit that gets me most with the 1632 series is the, well, I guess you’d call it liberal jingoism. You get used to it after a while, but it’s rather jarring. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/57 "2014-05-29T23:20:49Z")
David Weber is building up quite a body of work with his Honorverse. It’s up to 25 or so books now, and IMO shows no signs of running out of steam. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/58 "2014-05-29T23:35:21Z")
Eh, the side series are going strong, but the main line has been running out of steam for a while now. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569/59 "2014-05-30T02:04:48Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > For fantasy: > > Charles Stross’s Laundry series. I like The Jennifer Morgue best, but all of them are good. > > Jasper Fforde’s Thursday Next series. Hard to pick which one though. > > For Sci-fi: > > I’ve heard great things about [Ready Player One](http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Player-One-A-Novel/dp/0307887448) and [The Quantum Thief](http://www.amazon.com/Quantum-Thief-Jean-Flambeur/dp/0765367661), but haven’t picked them up yet. Ready Player One is great fun (I re-read it again last week), but over time it’s focus on 80s culture will blunt it’s appeal, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-and-sf-novels-since-2000-that-might-be-essentials-one-day/687569.md?page=2)