# Fantasy equivalents of modern terms **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 26, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231 "2017-01-26T15:40:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/1 "2017-01-26T15:40:31Z")
There are some words that you just can’t use in fantasy fiction (unless it’s urban fantasy) because they sound too modern. Too jarringly out of place. Even if your made-up society has equivalent concepts. So what would be the fantasy equivalent of “asexual”? Or “emo”? Or “nerd”? I mean, wouldn’t it be neat if one of the heroes in your epic band of Chosen Ones was able to offhandedly say “I’m [asexual]” and everyone would know what she meant and you wouldn’t have to make a big deal explaining it in the narrative? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/2 "2017-01-26T15:55:02Z")
“Abstinent” or “Chaste”. “Overly sensitive” perhaps. “bookish”, “recluse”, “odd”, “eccentric” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/3 "2017-01-26T15:55:03Z")
Sounds like more or less [rabbit smeerping](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallARabbitASmeerp). ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/4 "2017-01-26T16:44:49Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > “Abstinent” or “Chaste”. Problem is, those imply a choice. Like, “I would like to have sex, but I won’t.” I need a word or phrase that implies, “I don’t want to have sex in the first place.” > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Sounds like more or less [rabbit smeerping](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallARabbitASmeerp). Sometimes rabbits need smeerping. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/5 "2017-01-26T19:02:50Z")
Somewhat relevant, the quite good recent fantasy series [The Dagger and the Coin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dagger_and_the_Coin) features a very major character (Geder Palliako) who basically starts out as a nerd. Bookish, overweight, not-very-good-at-fighting. His story arc is, shall we say, NOT what you would expect for a nerd. ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/6 "2017-01-26T20:49:35Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > So what would be the fantasy equivalent of “asexual”? Or “emo”? Or “nerd”? Wizard for all three. Necromancer could also work for emo. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/7 "2017-01-26T20:58:08Z")
It’s a fantasy. Make up your own words. “Asexual” – asex (or eunuch, when taken to the extreme). “emo” – softman “nerd” – booklicker ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/8 "2017-01-26T22:45:42Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Somewhat relevant, the quite good recent fantasy series [The Dagger and the Coin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dagger_and_the_Coin) features a very major character (Geder Palliako) who basically starts out as a nerd. Bookish, overweight, not-very-good-at-fighting. His story arc is, shall we say, NOT what you would expect for a nerd. I have all five books. Geder was definitely a deconstruction of a few tropes, there. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/9 "2017-01-26T23:33:30Z")
A Song of Ice and Fire has a character who is called “the Reader.” Granted, reading isn’t so weird in the universe and learnéd men are celebrated, but it is weird in this character’s hyper-masculine bro-rapist culture, he’s a nerd. If you want to go the Tolkien linguist route (or Wolfe), find a very archaic and obsolete English word for what you mean. Some authors like to introduce concepts that the characters all understand but the reader might not. I kind of like this trope, it sure beats the awful and heavy handed “[As We All Know](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AsYouKnow), a smeerp eats carrots and hops.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/10 "2017-01-27T00:56:41Z")
I was just contemplating that the other day, in connection with the science fiction webcomic _Schlock Mercenary_. One term that’s been used in that strip a number of times is “vanilla helix”. From what’s been said, it’s clear that it’s one sort of design for an AI. And in the past few strips, we’ve started to learn what some of the distinctive traits are of a vanilla helix, that make it different from other sorts of AI. But I don’t think that we’ve ever been any clue at all of why there’s a sort of AI with the peculiar name of “vanilla helix”. The characters (or at least, the tech-savvy characters) all seem to know why it’s called that, but they’ve never had any reason to explain it, because the only other characters who would be interested also already know, and so there’s no one for them to explain to. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/11 "2017-01-27T01:11:41Z")
Later books in Lackey’s _Valdemar_ setting have the slang term “shaych” for “homosexual”, a shortening of related foreign terms from earlier in the series that means something like “one whose lover is like self”. I don’t recall a term used specifically for “asexual” in the setting, however, although there are some asexual characters. There’s a race with a neuter gender, but they’re just referred to as “neuter”. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/12 "2017-01-27T01:27:45Z")
For Nerd, “scholar” maybe? For younger characters “Bookworm” would work. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/13 "2017-01-27T01:28:01Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > Problem is, those imply a choice. Like, “I would like to have sex, but I won’t.” I need a word or phrase that implies, “I don’t want to have sex in the first place.” I don’t think that’s a given. Well, ok, “abstinent”, I’ll give you. But chaste just means “will not get nookie, ever” - whether it’s for penance, or to remain “pure”, or because they simply don’t have a libido isn’t explicited by the word. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/14 "2017-01-27T03:30:28Z")
One of the many delights of **A Crown for Cold Silver** and its sequel is its complete disregard for tarting up the language with ye olde shoppe-style neologisms. If Alex Marshall wanted an asexual nerd in the book, there’d fucking well be an asexual nerd, and everyone would call her an asexual nerd. It’s pretty refreshing. ---
**Author:** ![Dioptre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/278dde/32.png) [@Dioptre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dioptre)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/15 "2017-01-27T04:15:54Z")
The best fantasy writers trust their readers to gradually absorb the world-building, without having it spelled out as exposition. For a 3rd party narrator to just start describing a character as any of those things is hack writing. For a character to describe themselves like that is just weird. What sort of character in a good modern novel is introduced or introduces themselves as “asexual”? Sexuality and sexual behavior is revealed by how people act, or how people gossip about other people. Invent any word you like, and have people whisper or snigger it, and immediately the reader knows it is something. Exactly what it is can be revealed by implication or action. That’s what Mercedes Lackey does with homosexuality and “shaych”. In a medieval setting, other characters would automatically link asexuality with chasteness or religiosity. What does it matter if those other characters are wrong? What sort of character is introduced or introduces themselves as a “nerd”? Since we’re jumping to stereotypes anyway, nerds introduce themselves by displaying an obsessive interest in subjects uninteresting to other people. Nerds are introduced by narrators by having jock characters kick them around a little. To directly answer the question: asexual - Not attracted to men or women. emo - consumptive, broody, Byronic nerd - scholar, blue-stocking, bookish, engineer (an anachronism, but kind of accepted in fantasy now) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/16 "2017-01-27T04:32:30Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Kobal2** : > > I don’t think that’s a given. Well, ok, “abstinent”, I’ll give you. But chaste just means “will not get nookie, ever” - whether it’s for penance, or to remain “pure”, or because they simply don’t have a libido isn’t explicited by the word. A common misconception. Chaste doesn’t actually mean avoiding sex; it just means avoiding sexual impropriety. Someone can be perfectly chaste and still go at it like a bunny, as long as they’re going at it with their spouse. Abstinent still works, with the caveat that sex isn’t the only possible thing one might abstain from (one might also, for instance, abstain from meat, or from alcohol, or from haircuts). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/17 "2017-01-27T04:33:38Z")
I personally wouldn’t worry too much about it. The characters are probably speaking Common or Chondathan or somesuch rather than English anyway. Are you going to eschew all English-language idioms while you’re at it? That might be tough; we’re [quite reliant upon idioms](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY9gVIcRkkI) (NSFW language). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/18 "2017-01-27T08:16:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But I don’t think that we’ve ever been any clue at all of why there’s a sort of AI with the peculiar name of “vanilla helix”. The characters (or at least, the tech-savvy characters) all seem to know why it’s called that, but they’ve never had any reason to explain it, because the only other characters who would be interested also already know, and so there’s no one for them to explain to. I have been reading that as the [standard IT usage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla_software) of “vanilla” to mean “default, no mods or plugins” (esp, given Tayler’s previous job, applied to Linux kernels), related to the everyday “[plain vanilla](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plain_vanilla)” usage (or the more[adult version](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conventional_sex)) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/19 "2017-01-27T11:47:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A common misconception. Chaste doesn’t actually mean avoiding sex; it just means avoiding sexual impropriety. Someone can be perfectly chaste and still go at it like a bunny, as long as they’re going at it with their spouse. [Chaste has multiple definitions](http://www.dictionary.com/browse/chaste). You’re both right! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231/20 "2017-01-27T18:12:21Z")
See, back in the Medieval Europe people who didn’t want to have sex, ever, just declared that God had told them that they weren’t supposed to have sex, and so that’s why they never had sex. They didn’t have to explain that they never felt sexual desire, they had a built-in cultural escape hatch of religious celibacy. Yes, people haven’t changed. But the expressions of human nature change. Back in the old days there were nuns and priests and monks and hermits and dried up old spinsters and confirmed bachelors, and people who got married because their families made them but completely ignored their spouse. Same internal motivation–the person is uninterested in sex. But different outward manifestations of that motivation. Even today there are plenty of people who aren’t interested in sex but they don’t label themselves asexual, that’s a very new label for a phenomenon that’s been around since the beginning of history. Some of those people are married, with kids even, and if you ask them why they are married if they don’t like sex they’ll have various answers–wanted kids, wanted a companion, they were more or less forced into it, it was what you were supposed to do and they thought they’d change. Likewise, “nerdiness”. History is littered with nerdy types, but the obsessive focus and dorkiness is put to other ends than technology. Look at all the people in history obsessed with the minutia of theological points. Isaac Newton was pretty nerdy, and he was obsessed with alchemy and religion. The particular constellation of traits that defines a “nerd” in modern popular culture–computers, science, games, science fiction, fantasy, and so on is a modern invention. Take the same Star Wars obsessed computer hacker and raise him in the middle ages, and he’s the annoying village priest who actually takes that religion stuff seriously. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-equivalents-of-modern-terms/778231.md?page=2)