# Fantasy Island -Are Republicans losing their grip on reality? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841 "2011-05-23T01:31:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/41 "2011-05-23T19:32:23Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I have never read a rebuttal of TBC that did not read like a Fundamentalist track against evolution. You will find several [here,](http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Wars-Intelligence-Republic/dp/0465006930/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1306179036&sr=8-3) [here,](http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Debate-Russell-Jacoby/dp/0812925874/ref=pd_sim_b_2) and [here.](http://www.amazon.com/Mismeasure-Man-Revised-Expanded/dp/0393314251/ref=pd_sim_b_3) They do not read like Fundamentalist tracts against evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/42 "2011-05-23T19:47:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes. A news article\* in which the reporter uses the term “barked” to indicate a response about one throw-away line by the Governor of NJ is a sure sign that the entire Republican party is losing its grip on reality. Or did I somehow miss some depth of analysis in the OP…? My son-in-law is in law school in NJ, and Christie came to speak to the law school class. It seems that most of the students would say that his grip on reality is pretty tenuous, and creationism has nothing to do with it. We can only generalize to the entire party by noting that he is being bruited about as a candidate - but since Michelle Bachman is also, that train has long since left the station. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/43 "2011-05-23T20:09:03Z")
So this man’s idea on a topic he will never have to legislate on is more important than what he thinks about topics he will have to legislate on? So if a liberal thinks that gun control lowers violence despite mountains of evidence to the contrary it is okay because he believes he knows exactly what happened millions of years ago? If a liberal believes that high taxes and onerous regulation don’t hurt a state’s business climate despite reams of evidence, it is okay because he believes he knows exactly what happened millions of years ago? If a liberal believes that the only thing wrong with education is not enough money despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary, it is okay because he believes he knows exactly what happened millions of years ago? I don’t care if a politician thinks the moon is made of green cheese, if he implements sound policy based on the best evidence available. We are not electing eighth grade science teachers, we are electing people to implement policy. ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/44 "2011-05-23T20:40:48Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > You will have to get used to my intermittent attendance around here. > > Ok, for one, please quit pigeonholing me as a ‘leftist’ or a ‘liberal’. In today’s US national politics those labels have become pretty much moot from a practical standpoint. It is as **The Hamster King** said- the GOP stands for a kind of plutocracy/aristocracy and attempt to paper over that fact in the hopes of securing the ignorant vote so they can win elections and thereby advance the agenda of their corporate/billionaire masters. I think they are attempting to undermine education in order to manufacture more ignoramuses. (I am waiting for the Dems to become the conservative party and a true ‘leftist’ party to emerge to represent those left behind.) > > These days, on a pragmatic national-politics level, you either support that, or you are with the other guys. A politician who talks out of both sides of their mouth on the evolution issue is clearly with the plutocrats. Or as has been pointed out, is failing the moron test. > > Beyond that, we have a constitutional framework for dealing with differences between groups or individuals that may or may not exist. People are equal before the law in this country, not ‘favored by God.’ My idea of a competent public figure is one who will go on record as receiving the most up-to-date information on a subject, rather than pulling the curtain on the whackjob constituency he is pandering to. > > You want to talk about it? I’m not running for office, but I’m not hiding much. I’m probably more well-versed in the ‘why creationism isn’t true’ side that the finer points of evolution, honestly. Still, ‘none of your business’ is a stupid, stupid answer. That’s reserved for ‘do you share a foot fetish with your wife’ and other such questions. I agree it’s a stupid answer, my point is that people hold sacred values and often prefer ignorance to facts that interfere with those values or beliefs (the Steven Pinker link on the Blank Slate gives particular examples of ev-psch info about human nature that offends marxists and conservatives). That affects politicians of all stripes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/45 "2011-05-23T21:08:13Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > So this man’s idea on a topic he will never have to legislate on is more important than what he thinks about topics he will have to legislate on? If he’s that out of touch with reality, he’s not qualified to be President. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/46 "2011-05-23T21:25:46Z")
I read that Slate article this weekend and enjoyed it, though it didn’t go too in depth as others have pointed out. One thing it didn’t really mention is the REpublicans seem to preach fear as part of their campaigns. Since Pawlenty is going to be on the primary ballot (and he looks like a new favorite), how much will his original pick, [Cheri Yecke](http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/04/tim-pawlenty-education-sharing-socialism), to head an education plan for Minnesota effect his outlook? Does he really believe that sharing teaches socialist implications? Does he really believe what this woman says? Will his future picks in a Pawlenty administration be conservative activists like her? I’m sure that a lot of voters may love the idea of an entire history class built around Ronald Reagan instead of the Constitution, I’ll bet there are plenty who would’ve backed Huckabee’s “everyone should be a christian” rhetoric. Hell, I bet there’s thousands who are hoping (and praying) for a Sarah Palin presidential run. But I partially agree with the article. Republicans use a fear tactic in fear of losing votes from the fearful. It all becomes a Sunday sermon. I’m still really wondering why people care so much about “believing” in evolution as a voting factor. If they say they don’t support it being taught in schools, I can only hope they say this to get the votes of the deluded. They’re educated, aren’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/47 "2011-05-23T21:28:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > You will find several [here,](http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Wars-Intelligence-Republic/dp/0465006930/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1306179036&sr=8-3) [here,](http://www.amazon.com/Bell-Curve-Debate-Russell-Jacoby/dp/0812925874/ref=pd_sim_b_2) and [here.](http://www.amazon.com/Mismeasure-Man-Revised-Expanded/dp/0393314251/ref=pd_sim_b_3) They do not read like Fundamentalist tracts against evolution. Since I’ve told **Chen019** and **New Deal Democrat** that this topic is off limits, you need to stop posting about it here. They can’t respond without being warned and it’s not relevant to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/48 "2011-05-23T23:49:25Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > One’s views on a scientific theory has nothing to do with his or her abilities as a politician. A politician who believes something that is pretty obviously not true reveals poor judgment and a lack of general knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/49 "2011-05-23T23:52:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If he’s that out of touch with reality, he’s not qualified to be President. Nonsense, Andrew Jackson thought the Earth was _flat_. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/50 "2011-05-24T00:00:48Z")
Andrew Jackson had a lot of faults, but there’s no evidence he thought the earth was flat. See [this previous thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=593918) on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/51 "2011-05-24T00:41:00Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > So this man’s idea on a topic he will never have to legislate on is more important than what he thinks about topics he will have to legislate on? > So if a liberal thinks that gun control lowers violence despite mountains of evidence to the contrary it is okay because he believes he knows exactly what happened millions of years ago? > If a liberal believes that high taxes and onerous regulation don’t hurt a state’s business climate despite reams of evidence, it is okay because he believes he knows exactly what happened millions of years ago? > If a liberal believes that the only thing wrong with education is not enough money despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary, it is okay because he believes he knows exactly what happened millions of years ago? > I don’t care if a politician thinks the moon is made of green cheese, if he implements sound policy based on the best evidence available. We are not electing eighth grade science teachers, we are electing people to implement policy. What about a politician who cheats on his wife and lies about it? For that matter, what about a politician who supports gay marriage or abortion rights? Are politicians who are economically conservative but socially liberal acceptable in the Republican party? The issue with Christie is not that he didn’t give the right answer when asked about what happened millions of years ago, it’s that he is _afraid_ to give the right answer, and therefore the issue is the masses of _people_ that he’s afraid of. So if a politician leads the country into a disastrous war, runs up a disastrous deficit, and leads us into a disastrous recession, that’s okay because he believes in the Bible? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/52 "2011-05-24T00:55:27Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > What about a politician who cheats on his wife and lies about it? > > For that matter, what about a politician who supports gay marriage or abortion rights? Are politicians who are economically conservative but socially liberal acceptable in the Republican party? > > The issue with Christie is not that he didn’t give the right answer when asked about what happened millions of years ago, it’s that he is _afraid_ to give the right answer, and therefore the issue is the masses of _people_ that he’s afraid of. > > So if a politician leads the country into a disastrous war, runs up a disastrous deficit, and leads us into a disastrous recession, that’s okay because he believes in the Bible? You ridiculously simplify the course of the Bush administration and at any rate Bush had one of the lowest approval ratings when he got out of office. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/53 "2011-05-24T01:05:39Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > You ridiculously simplify the course of the Bush administration and at any rate Bush had one of the lowest approval ratings when he got out of office. Sorry, what simplification are you talking about? Seems to be a pretty fair summation. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/54 "2011-05-24T01:17:14Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > The issue with Christie is not that he didn’t give the right answer when asked about what happened millions of years ago, it’s that he is _afraid_ to give the right answer, and therefore the issue is the masses of _people_ that he’s afraid of. Exactly what I thought. The fearful will lead the fearful through fear, though they may claim to have faith in the faithful. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/55 "2011-05-24T01:20:09Z")
On the contrary, Bush, McCain, and others have all said they subscribe to evolution, yet they have gotten little if no flak for that. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/56 "2011-05-24T01:32:45Z")
I think the early results of Republican Fantasy Island dwelling have already manifested themselves: the House voted to kill Medicare, and the electorate, left, right and center, is literally slavering for Republican blood as a result. If it lasts into 2012 despite the massive backpedaling by the Republicans that has already started, expect a Republican bloodbath in the House and possibly the Senate as well. And Obama reelected easily. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/57 "2011-05-24T02:10:28Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > I think the early results of Republican Fantasy Island dwelling have already manifested themselves: the House voted to kill Medicare, and the electorate, left, right and center, is literally slavering for Republican blood as a result. If it lasts into 2012 despite the massive backpedaling by the Republicans that has already started, expect a Republican bloodbath in the House and possibly the Senate as well. And Obama reelected easily. Believe that at your peril. The real movers and shakers in the Republican party are the top 10 percent. They include the extremely wealth and powerful people who own TV and radio networks. They sponsor think tanks. They pay for the Tea baggers and set their agenda. They have some very smart people working for them. They know how to keep the gun lovers, anti abortion and other single issue voters in line. And they have no interest in being fair and honest. They just want to win. It means billions of dollars to them. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/58 "2011-05-24T02:11:50Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Not really a GD, . . . Correct, but we gave it a hearing, anyway. Given the tenor of the responses, I think this will be quite comfortable in The BBQ Pit. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/59 "2011-05-24T02:23:49Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > I agree it’s a stupid answer, my point is that people hold sacred values and often prefer ignorance to facts that interfere with those values or beliefs (the Steven Pinker link on the Blank Slate gives particular examples of ev-psch info about human nature that offends marxists and conservatives). That affects politicians of all stripes. Well… you make a point about ‘people’ (I’m assuming in general) and then kind of overlay that with ‘politicians’. I expect people in general to have all kinds of faults and foibles. Politicians, OTOH, are seeking to _represent_ us all. Therefore I expect them to reflect the best, and not the worst, nor most ignorant, nor most irrationally fearful, nor most bigoted, nor most greedy, or most cruel, nor most manipulative, nor most callous, nor most unconstitutional &etc. aspects of the population. The anti-evolution issue and all the divisive, destructive, and moronic sub-issues it drags with it ought to be publicly confronted by a politician. It has a relevant current history, doncha think? If they are truly going to make decisions from a POV of religious fundamentalism, or else on the behalf of people with that POV, then I am sorry but they are playing fast and loose with the 1st Amendment’s separation of Church and State and can take a frickin’ hike AFAIAC. The national situation is becoming far too serious to continue humoring steaming piles of abject bullshit. Not that Christie is physically capable of taking a hike, but you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/60 "2011-05-24T02:27:52Z")
At the risk of offending the mod’s ban on evolution talk, **Chen019** - check out [Guns, Germs and Steel.](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4008293090480628280#) In a nutshell, it makes the case that geography, not genetic differences, explains the apparent historical differences in the fortunes of the various ‘races’. Watch all 3 episodes and I’ll devote an equivalent amount of time to the source of your choice. Deal? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841.md?page=4)