# Fantasy Island -Are Republicans losing their grip on reality? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841 "2011-05-23T01:31:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/81 "2011-05-25T00:12:15Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What were the approval ratings for President McKinley after the Galveston Hurricane in 1900? :rolleyes: Unless you know the answer to that question, it is a rather pointless to offer it as any kind of rebuttal. The rolleyes have more substance. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/82 "2011-05-25T00:13:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You were like six when it happened, but if you didn’t know. Bush fucked up the response to Katrina. Because he’s an idiot. Oh yes that’s why he graduated from Yale. And all the blame’s to Bush and none to Governor Blanco, Mayor Nagin, FEMA, and etc. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/83 "2011-05-25T00:17:33Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Oh yes that’s why he graduated from Yale. And all the blame’s to Bush and none to Governor Blanco, Mayor Nagin, FEMA, and etc. Bush set up a system of stupidity and cronyism that allowed it to happen. I’m glad that I can inform you of basic facts that your blind and ignorant devotion to a bankrupt ideology makes you miss. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/84 "2011-05-25T01:29:59Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Oh yes that’s why he graduated from Yale. And all the blame’s to Bush and none to Governor Blanco, Mayor Nagin, FEMA, and etc. I don’t vote for the governor of Louisiana, or for the mayor of New Orleans. Their performance in their jobs isn’t something that I can do anything about, so I don’t concern myself with it. I do vote for the president, though, and his job performance (and that of the agencies he oversees) is my concern. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/85 "2011-05-25T02:25:15Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What were the approval ratings for President McKinley after the Galveston Hurricane in 1900? :rolleyes: Don’t know. Don’t know your point. Hurricane Katrina was a category 5 hurricane that occurred in 2005 and leveled New Orleans. The federal response was widely acknowledged to be [pathetic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_government_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina), probably because FEMA was packed with cronies, rather than emergency professionals. Yet in the face of this, GWBush’s approval ratings among Republicans didn’t dip. Independents felt otherwise. The Republican base operates on a different wavelength. Oh and yes, Democratic approval for Carter dropped following the failed hostage rescue mission: Democrat and independent opinion is shaped by the facts on the ground. More generally Qin, you were born at an inconvenient time. The sane Republicans have left the ballroom. Sensible conservatives have a few choices at the state level, but in Washington they are out of luck. Then again, things can change. After Reagan creamed Mondale in 1984, Democrats took a hard look at themselves and began re-engineering the party. The fiscally responsible policies of the Clinton administration were a direct result of this. Looking forward towards 2012, I hope the Republicans nominate a complete loon: Palin or Michele Bachmann would be terrific choices. They would lose horribly and force the party to bring so-called RINO thinking out of retirement. Kevin Drum presents the possibilities: ```auto Reality Based Wingnut ----------------------- | GOP | | | comes to | We're | Wins | its senses.| doomed.| | | | ----------------------- | GOP | GOP | | goes out | comes to| Loses | of its | its | | mind. | senses. | | | | ----------------------- ``` ``` If the economy is fine the GOP loses. Otherwise they win. I'd prefer that they come to their senses. Unfortunately, I predict they will nominate the born-again climate science denier Pawlenty, lose, then drop deeper into the crazy. http://motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/05/marketing-geek-look-gop-primary ``` ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/86 "2011-05-25T03:08:51Z")
As the guys at Crooked Timber noticed, the Republicans seem to be encountering something that was missing for a long time: a reality based press. > **[Reality-based journalism? — Crooked Timber](https://crookedtimber.org/2011/05/22/reality-based-journalism/)** > [@](#): > > The killing of bin Laden a few days afterwards set the seal on things. As Scott McLemee observed, Obama seemed to be making life difficult for himself in his quest to impose Sharia law on an unsuspecting US populace. The desperate attempts of Republicans to claim that it was their policy of torture that made Obama’s success possible looked even sillier given their longstanding endorsement of, or acquiescence in, birtherism. > > Since then, there has been a steady drumbeat of events, minor in themselves, and unlikely to have counted for much in the past, that fit the frame “Republicans=delusion”. > > - The release of yet another authoritative report on climate change by the National Academy of Sciences > > - The exposure of massive plagiarism and other misconduct in the work of Edward Wegman, lead expert in the attack on the climate change “hockey stick” > > - The massively publicised predictions of a Doomsday rapture, which have permitted general mockery of a belief that (minus the nomination of a specific date) is held by lots of Americans[2] and almost certainly the majority of the Republican base > > - The debate over budget policy, the Ryan plan and the debt ceiling, in which the Very Serious Centrists (a group exemplified, until very recently, by Jacob Weisberg) took a hammering from real experts like Krugman, who could work with numbers rather than being taken in by rhetoric. > > Once the frame is in place, examples can be multiplied indefinitely (evolution, DDT, bogus US history, “Climategate”, the Breitbart scams etc etc). Moreover, thanks to blogs and work like Chris Mooney’s Republican War on Science, both the framework and the material required on most individual topics is ready to hand. So, no great intellectual effort is required to fit any particular story into this analytical framework. That’s important given that most journalists (like most people) aren’t too keen on intellectual effort. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/87 "2011-05-25T04:03:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Once the frame is in place, examples can be multiplied indefinitely (evolution, DDT, bogus US history, “Climategate”, the Breitbart scams etc etc). Moreover, thanks to blogs and work like Chris Mooney’s Republican War on Science, both the framework and the material required on most individual topics is ready to hand. So, no great intellectual effort is required to fit any particular story into this analytical framework. That’s important given that most journalists (like most people) aren’t too keen on intellectual effort. Misanthropy aside, I think what is being described here is a massive arsenal of political ammo. What are the pubs going to fire back with? “You raised taxes!”? “You’re a socialist!”? “You took our guns away!!”? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/88 "2011-05-25T04:05:26Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Believe that at your peril. The real movers and shakers in the Republican party are the top 10 percent. They include the extremely wealth and powerful people who own TV and radio networks. They sponsor think tanks. They pay for the Tea baggers and set their agenda. > They have some very smart people working for them. They know how to keep the gun lovers, anti abortion and other single issue voters in line. > And they have no interest in being fair and honest. They just want to win. It means billions of dollars to them. If they are so smart and so in control, why did they let their minions stick their collective weenie in the pencil sharpener? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/89 "2011-05-25T04:37:33Z")
It works for midterm elections. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/90 "2011-05-25T05:29:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Bush set up a system of stupidity and cronyism that allowed it to happen. I’m glad that I can inform you of basic facts that your blind and ignorant devotion to a bankrupt ideology makes you miss. I suppose you never heard of gentlemens Cs. The rich legacies get passed. That is all there is to it. They bring a measure of prestige to the university with their family name. They give millions of dollars to the school. They provide speakers for commencements. They can help them politically. The rich are not like you. Fail one of the kids and you are asking for trouble. That is why big names like Bush, Kennedy, Rockefeller, Dow , Johnson and others go through the best most prestigious schools. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/91 "2011-05-25T05:30:16Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Oh, they know. They just don’t care. All the tax cuts in the world won’t turn Obama white. Can I put that on a bumper sticker, please? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/92 "2011-05-25T05:31:46Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What were the approval ratings for President McKinley after the Galveston Hurricane in 1900? :rolleyes: Dunno. His response didn’t cut any ice with Leon Czolgosz, that’s for sure… BTW, who _was_ McKinley’s Director of FEMA? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/93 "2011-05-25T14:11:55Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > What were the approval ratings for President McKinley after the Galveston Hurricane in 1900? Do you have an actual point with that, or are you going with the theory that if you throw out a sufficiently goofy non sequitor you’ll distract everyone? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/94 "2011-05-26T00:43:09Z")
The Republicans just keep [serving up these softballs](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/25/usa-campaign-pawlenty-idUSN2519872020110525)for Democrats to knock over the fence: > [@](#): > > Republican presidential candidate Tim Pawlenty urged big changes to the Social Security retirement program on Wednesday, but said paring U.S. defense spending is not vital to tame the bloated federal budget. It as if they just don’t care what the voters think, they are going to stick to the narrative, no matter what. Roll on, you big crazy bag of hammers. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841/95 "2011-05-26T01:03:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The Republicans just keep [serving up these softballs](http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/25/usa-campaign-pawlenty-idUSN2519872020110525)for Democrats to knock over the fence:It as if they just don’t care what the voters think, they are going to stick to the narrative, no matter what. Roll on, you big crazy bag of hammers. Damn greedy old people. Don’t they know about the critical need for more expensive equipment to be built in Republican districts? Let them eat cat food. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-island-are-republicans-losing-their-grip-on-reality/582841.md?page=4)