# Fantasy liberal countries **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 25, 2015, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841 "2015-01-25T11:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/21 "2015-01-26T00:49:53Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > Is there a such thing, ever in the course of real human history of a real country, anywhere that was without weapons truly safe and free for long? I’m still waiting to figure out what the frack does “a country that was without weapons yet truly safe and free” have to do with being “a fantasy liberal country”. Except that it’s the OP’s fantasy of what liberals are about. MY fantasy liberal country has universal healthcare, green energy, proportional representation, progressive taxation, reproductive freedom, parental leave, marriage equality, full freedoms of spech, press and worship, separation of church and state, and no death penalty. “Weapons” are far behind in the list. And so far I haven’t found one sufficiently better at all that to merit the moving expense. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/22 "2015-01-26T01:29:41Z")
Damn, it seems as if I’m living in \*\*JR Delirious’s \*\*fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/23 "2015-01-26T01:46:57Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Damn, it seems as if I’m living in \*\*JR Delirious’s \*\*fantasy. Great. Would it kill you to do a little cleaning once in a while? The place is a flippin’ mess. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/24 "2015-01-26T11:35:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Fantasy liberal countries? > > Well, the Shire is fairly liberal in terms of political and economic systems, although its citizens tend to be social conservatives. Rivendell and Lothlorien seem to be the opposite - social liberals, like all elves, but with the the government and economy under the control of multi-thousand-year-old absolute monarchs. Gondor and Rohan probably lie somewhere in the middle. The Shire though, is lucky to be off in a little known corner of the world far from most enemies or as Gandalf says “most people have never even heard of Hobbits”. It also only has 2 roads to enter the land both of which are guarded by more powerful friends. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/25 "2015-01-26T11:37:23Z")
> [@siestag](#): > > surely there are many countries relatively safe and free, no where is perfect. reason for not moving there is, lack of suitable passport , economy might be less attractive. or simply because of the lack of friends and family there. NZ for example, low crime rate, nice climate, stable democracy. Very few weapons so much safer. Anywhere that has restricted weapons laws will give you a much lower chance of getting shot of course. (look at any statistics) But then isn’t NZ technically an occupied country since the British took it from the native Maori? ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/26 "2015-01-26T13:13:52Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > But as far as daily life goes, there are definitely things I don’t do here that I felt comfortable doing in Japan, like carrying large quantities of cash in my wallet or walking several blocks to a convenience store by myself late at night to get a snack. Where do you live in the U.S. that you don’t feel comfortable walking to the convenience store at night? I mean, yeah, there _are_ some places where I wouldn’t but none of the places that I would imagine an educated world traveler to be living. Possibly relevant: are you a man or a woman? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/27 "2015-01-26T13:27:18Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > Is there a such thing, ever in the course of real human history of a real country, anywhere that was without weapons truly safe and free for long? If so, why don’t you move there? So you think “gun banning” is the totality of liberalism? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/28 "2015-01-26T13:53:14Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > The Shire though, is lucky to be off in a little known corner of the world far from most enemies or as Gandalf says “most people have never even heard of Hobbits”. It also only has 2 roads to enter the land both of which are guarded by more powerful friends. True, but there is also a high enough level of private bow ownership to allow the raising of an impromptu militia if needed, as certain unfilmed events have shown. Although that might just be a Took thing. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/29 "2015-01-26T14:19:59Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > But then isn’t NZ technically an occupied country since the British took it from the native Maori? And exactly how do you imagine Americans got America? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/30 "2015-01-26T16:26:23Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > The name of the country is “Iceland”. At least Greenland has the decency to pretend to be something other than a frozen, troll infested wasteland. That is libel. There hasn’t been a troll in Iceland in a thousand years. The orcs hunted and ate them, then froze to death themselves. Sheesh, read your history. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/31 "2015-01-26T17:18:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > That is libel. There hasn’t been a troll in Iceland in a thousand years. Sadly, the internet brought them back. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/32 "2015-01-26T17:26:38Z")
Japan has pretty much no weapons and is safe, and has been for decades. I don’t move there because I don’t speak Japanese ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/33 "2015-01-26T17:42:28Z")
Hey liberals! Why don’t you abandon your homeland and give up your citizenship and leave all your friends behind and go to some foreign country where there are undoubtedly countless other guys just like me, except they speak with a funny accent or a different language altogether? Yeah, why _isn’t_ that the perfect solution to a liberal-versus-conservative debate? I cannot imagine why not. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/34 "2015-01-26T18:05:04Z")
Personal freedom and personal safety are inversely porportional. You must give up some of one to gain more of the other. I tend to lean more toward personal freedom, but to each their own. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/35 "2015-01-26T21:04:26Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Personal freedom and personal safety are inversely porportional. You must give up some of one to gain more of the other. That’s an interesting assertion, but I can’t think of a reason to accept it as truth. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/36 "2015-01-26T21:37:26Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > In that case, while it’s not a particularly liberal country, private gun ownership is extremely rare and very tightly regulated in Japan. Japan also has a very low rate of violent crime. I did move there after college to work as an English teacher and felt very safe. > > I moved back to the US because as a foreign national who wasn’t fluent in Japanese I had limited opportunities to continue my education or advance my career. But as far as daily life goes, there are definitely things I don’t do here that I felt comfortable doing in Japan, like carrying large quantities of cash in my wallet or walking several blocks to a convenience store by myself late at night to get a snack. I’ll ditto all of this post and add that, during my second week in the country I intentionally wandered the back-alleys of the town where I was stationed. I wandered aimlessly between 11PM and 2AM on a Friday and Saturday night to see how long it would be before I felt unsafe or lost and it didn’t happen. And blind nationalism is an idiot’s refuge. If you see that your kid is struggling to read, you don’t just shrug and say, “Well, at least she’s pretty.” If you love her you try to help her or find programs to help her. Some of us love our country\* like that, too. –G! \*Whether that’s the USA, Iceland, Iraq, or whatever. Pop music says “everything is all right.” Rock music say’s “it’s not all right, but we can make it better.” –Bono (U2) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/37 "2015-01-26T21:50:42Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > Personal freedom and personal safety are inversely porportional. You must give up some of one to gain more of the other. I tend to lean more toward personal freedom, but to each their own. On the contrary, without safety you _have_ no freedom. If everything you do is mandated by survival needs, you aren’t free. Nor are you free if you’re dead. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/38 "2015-01-26T22:32:29Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Yes, but that’s the luxury of a low-threat environment. Imagine if Israel disarmed its military entirely. The country probably wouldn’t last a year. Why do you think liberalism == pacifism? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/39 "2015-01-26T22:36:11Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > Is there a such thing, ever in the course of real human history of a real country, anywhere that was without weapons truly safe and free for long? If so, why don’t you move there? OP fail. You remind me of when I was in college. I had long hair, and kind of looked hippie-ish (though I wasn’t in the slightest.) I went to visit my room mate in Texas, and his good Texan father went out to a shooting range, no doubt expecting me to get an allergic reaction to guns. What I did do was say cool, I shot rifle in Boy Scouts and took pistol as part of my PE requirements. And happily blasted away. Wanting guns to be licensed and excluded from schools and bars does not mean we hate guns. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841/40 "2015-01-27T01:04:02Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > Where do you live in the U.S. that you don’t feel comfortable walking to the convenience store at night? > I mean, yeah, there _are_ some places where I wouldn’t but none of the places that I would imagine an educated world traveler to be living. Nearly 40% of Americans told [Gallup](http://www.gallup.com/poll/144272/nearly-americans-fear-walking-alone-night.aspx) that there were places within a mile of where they lived where they would be afraid to walk alone at night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-liberal-countries/710841.md?page=3)