# Fantasy/ sci fi with strong female characters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 12, 2005, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727 "2005-02-12T09:38:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/61 "2005-02-13T16:01:56Z")
The thing about Robert Jordan… well, do you remember the **X-Files**? Remember how when it started it seemed like something special, taking old sci-fi ideas and tropes and making them seem new again, with well written characters and audacious plot twists? Remember how it seemed to have this vast epic feeling, as if the entire series was rushing towards some massive, earth-shattering conclusion that would change the way we thought of the genre? Remember how you started to feel - somewhere around season 5 - that there WAS no master plan, no pre-planned resolution, and that the producers had just fallen in love with there own myth and were drawing things along, aimlessly, for purely mercenary reasons? That the writing was getting stale, the plots repitative, and the character progressively stupider? That eventually you couldn’t even see the early, good episodes without getting oddly furious? Well, Jordan’s _Wheel of Time_ is exactly the same, only the female characters aren’t as well written. ---
**Author:** ![Papermache\_Prince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Papermache\_Prince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Papermache_Prince)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/62 "2005-02-13T16:41:58Z")
I’d suggest **The Bone Doll’s Twin** and **Hidden Warrior** by [Lynn Flewelling](http://www.sff.net/people/Lynn.Flewelling/). ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/63 "2005-02-13T17:44:48Z")
Oo! Ooo! Flewelling! For sure! And certainly Tanya Huff. Start off with _Summon the Keeper_, and then move to her vampire books. Hambly has many, many books, but I have to disagree with **phouka** and say NOT to start with the _Silent Tower_. Start with Sparkhawk in _The Witches of Wenshar_, if you can find it. I liked Sparhawk a lot more than I liked Jenna. But really any of her books will do. I see you have only read one McKillip. Sometimes her books are hard to get into because her style of writing is so unique (and I think gorgeous) it’s hard to figure out just what she’s saying. But any of her newer works – _Alphabet of Thorn_ is my favorite – are really good reads and not _quite_ as hard to read as her _Sorceress and Cygnet_ books. Definitely check those out, they are the ones with the ornate covers. I am so thrilled that you have all this wonderful reading ahead of you! I wish I could forget every book that I have read and start all over with Hambly, McKinley, McKillip, Czerneda, Tepper, Lackey, Huff, Tanith Lee (Biting the Sun only), Kritzer, Trudi Canavan…the list goes on. You are so lucky 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![sweetfreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@sweetfreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweetfreak)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/64 "2005-02-13T17:50:50Z")
**The Sword of Truth** series by Terry Goodkind has very strong female characters, from all different walks of life. There is even an 8 year old girl that will make you weep at her bravery. Of course, his books are written from a very objective view point, that there is “truth”, and it can be known. If your philosophical view points differ, you may not appreciate his work. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/65 "2005-02-13T18:06:47Z")
Woo-hoo! I’m on the second page, posting for the second time, and I still get to be the first one to mention Isaac Asimov’s **Dr. Susan Calvin** from his Robot stories. Not the babe in last year’s popcorn movie – the real Dr. Calvin, robopsychologist, the heart of his Robot stories, the subject of Harlan Ellison’s which directly adapts several of Asimov’s stories into a never-made treatment of Asimov’s characters using \*Citizen Kane \* as its template. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED: the illustrated screenplay of the same name. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/66 "2005-02-13T19:04:42Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Woo-hoo! I’m on the second page, posting for the second time, and I still get to be the first one to mention Isaac Asimov’s **Dr. Susan Calvin** from his Robot stories. Not the babe in last year’s popcorn movie – the real Dr. Calvin, robopsychologist, the heart of his Robot stories, the subject of Harlan Ellison’s which directly adapts several of Asimov’s stories into a never-made treatment of Asimov’s characters using \*Citizen Kane \* as its template. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED: the illustrated screenplay of the same name. On the other hand… as much of a fan as I am of dear Susan… she rated pretty high on the ‘horrible bitch-o-meter.’ On the other hand, that was usually portrayed as how she coped with maintaining a high-ranking (and uniquely qualified) position at a huge company, surrounded by a good-ol boy’s club who were patronizing and… well, harass-ive, if I can use that not quite word. I might have brought her up myself if the OP hadn’t specified that not being a horrible bitch was a criterion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2005, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/67 "2005-02-13T19:14:53Z")
See, I don’t think of Susan as a bitch. Just a competant character who can be, at times, be a supremely bitchy juggernaut. I have the _I, Robot: The Illustrated Screenplay_ right here, and Harlan Ellison says that wrote her lines with Joanne Woodward in mind for the role. I also think Laura Innes portraying Susan Calvin is a match made in heaven. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/68 "2005-02-14T00:01:18Z")
The “Morgaine” series by C.J. Cherryh. _Gate of Ivrel Well of Shiuan Fires of Azeroth Exile’s Gate_ ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/69 "2005-02-14T02:12:44Z")
I will throw in: Juliet E. McKenna’s _Tales of Einarinn_ novels (I love Livak) Michelle West’s _Hunter’s Oath_ and _The Sun Sword_ novels ---
**Author:** ![Aitara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aitara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aitara)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/70 "2005-02-14T02:22:36Z")
Some more recommendations: **The Liveship Traders** by Robin Hobb. _Ship of Magic_ is the first one of this series. I love her characters, and the premise of the books are very interesting. **Dragon Prince** by Melanie Rawn. _Dragon Prince_ is the first book of this series. Sioned is another of my favorite characters. **Exiles** also by Melanie Rawn. \*The Ruins of Ambrai \* is the first book of this series. I actually liked it better than Dragon Prince, but it is unfinished. **Skolian Saga** by Catherine Asaro. _Primary Inversion_ is the first of this series. I started out loving this series but she shifted from Science Fiction to romance after the third or forth book. (I forget which book that was, but it’s the one with the man wearing the too small shirt.) **The Little Country** , **Jack of Kinrowan** , and **Dreams Underfoot** all by Charles DeLint. His work is classified as urban fantasy, and he tends to be very inconsistent. When he is good, I think he is one of the best out there. Otherwise, he is barely readable. **Deverry** by Katherine Kerr. These can be hard to follow because of her ‘twisty plotlines’ but I adore the characters and the premise of the books. And finally, **Thursday Next** by Jasper Fforde. Another series that I adore, I have read the first 3 several times now. ---
**Author:** ![kushiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@kushiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kushiel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/71 "2005-02-14T02:42:57Z")
The Kushiel Trilogy by Jacqueline Carey. Phedre no Delaunay is strong of will more than strong of strength, but if you have to go through what she does, you’d have to be. …Hell, I’m having trouble thinking of a female in those books who _isn’t_ strong. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/72 "2005-02-14T03:20:19Z")
I third **Octavia Butler** (try _Wild Seed_) and **Sherri Tepper** (although she has her own problems with male characters) and would like to bring up the prolific and talented **Ursula LeGuin**. **OtakuLoki** and I disagree on Heinlein (as Otaku already knows). His female characters are strong, certainly, but they aren’t women. Except for plumbing, they are men in drag, and a bit disappointing if you are looking for a role model for your daughter. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/73 "2005-02-14T03:32:13Z")
> [@kushiel](#): > > The Kushiel Trilogy by Jacqueline Carey. Phedre no Delaunay is strong of will more than strong of strength, but if you have to go through what she does, you’d have to be. > > …Hell, I’m having trouble thinking of a female in those books who _isn’t_ strong. Mmmm, Melisande was almost enough to make me switch sides. _fans self_ ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/74 "2005-02-14T03:52:24Z")
> [@Flutterby](#): > > I’ll second the McCaffrey, Lackey and Pierce books. I like Lackey’s Elemental Master’s series as well, there’s three books in so far with the newest one being Phoenix and Ashes. That one is set during WWII (the time period’s vary) with a very cinderella-like theme running through it, only Ellie doesn’t wait for her ‘prince’ to save her she pretty much saves herself. [nitpick]World War I, not World War II. Maya, the lead from _The Serpent’s Shadow_ appears in the book, and the sanitarium from _The Gates of Sleep_ is mentioned, as was the San Francisco fire from _The Fire Rose_. Which was a nice way to tie them together, I thought, without being obnoxious about it.[/nitpick] It’s only a small nitpick, you see. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/75 "2005-02-14T06:53:24Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > If you’re a comics fan {and if you’re not, you could do worse than start here} you should check out **The Ballad Of Halo Jones** - originally a three part 2000 AD series, but available in a collected trade paperback; Amazon stock it - by Alan Moore and Ian Gibson: some very good Alan Moore writing, and nice black and white Ian Gibson artwork. Well, heck, if we’re including comics, go grab Frank Miller and Dave Gibbons’ **Martha Washington** stuff, especially the first series (“Martha Washington Goes to War”). Martha kicks so much ass, you’ll either find yourself intimidated into curling into a tiny fetal ball or bowing down in worship before her greatness. ---
**Author:** ![lizardling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f4b2a3/32.png) [@lizardling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lizardling)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/76 "2005-02-14T07:06:45Z")
CJ Cherryh’s _Chanur_ books. The girls go to space, the boys stay home and breed. 😃 Wow, someone else read Delia Marshall Turner’s _Nameless Magery_! Did you read the sequel, _Of Swords and Spells_? The _Morgaine_ books were great, but the premise really freaked me out. That’s one of my special terrors – that I won’t just _end_ someday. Yes, I’m weird. Hmm. _goes to look at shelves_ Kristen Britain’s _Green Rider_ and _The First Rider’s Call_. Amy Thomson’s _The Color of Distance_ and the sequel. Denise Lopes Heald’s _Mistwalker_. Uhm. I can’t remember if Jirel of Joiry was a bitch or not, but it seems to be considered pretty seminal heroic fantasy, IIRC. Nth the recommendation of the Abhorsen books, although I loved the first one the best. Sis and I were a little disappointed in the last one, although it was still really enjoyable. Ursula K LeGuin is awesome. But if you read the _Earthsea_ books, for Og’s sake, SAVE YOURSELF and don’t read _Tehanu_. Ever. I hated that book _so_ much. Uhm. Her style’s too rich and decadent for my taste, but some people like Tanith Lee’s books. Emma Bull and Will Shetterly’s _Bordertown_ books (Life on the Border, Nevernever, Bordertown, Finder, etc) Tanya Huff’s _Quarter_ books. _Don’t_ read _The Quartered Sea_. That one blew rocks, coming off having read the other books in the bunch. ☹ Uhm. Eric Flint. _Mother of Demons_. Salinda Tyson. _Wheel of Dreams_. Love this one to bits. Debra Doyle and James MacDonald’s _Mageworlds_ books if you want some good space opera. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/77 "2005-02-14T14:05:43Z")
R.A.Salvatore’s _Cleric Quintet_ has a very strong female lead. Hell, she does far mroe ass kicking than anyone else in the books…and she rarely uses more than jsut her hands and feet! Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman also have strong female leads. Their classic _Dragonlance Chronicles_ series has two very strong females, and even their other series are pretty good at shying away from the ‘damsel in distress’ theme. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/78 "2005-02-14T14:30:48Z")
Most of my favorites have been mentioned –_His Dark Materials_, most of Le Guin’s work, Guy Gavriel Kay (although I think _Fionavar Tapestry_ is awful, the worst by far of anything i’ve read by him), etc. So just one more recommendation: _The Scar_, by China Mieville, has a fascinating woman at the core of it. His earlier book, _Perdido Street Station_, also has interesting women, but not as the protagonist. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/79 "2005-02-14T15:46:09Z")
> [@Kat](#): > > I will throw in: > Juliet E. McKenna’s _Tales of Einarinn_ novels (I love Livak) > Michelle West’s _Hunter’s Oath_ and _The Sun Sword_ novels Damn you for getting to McKenna before me. Wish she’d write more books, not necessarily even in that series. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727/80 "2005-02-14T16:33:26Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > [nitpick]World War I, not World War II. Maya, the lead from _The Serpent’s Shadow_ appears in the book, and the sanitarium from _The Gates of Sleep_ is mentioned, as was the San Francisco fire from _The Fire Rose_. Which was a nice way to tie them together, I thought, without being obnoxious about it.[/nitpick] > > It’s only a small nitpick, you see. It’s okay for the nitpick. My history is shaky, I admit, and I was thinking of putting WWI but I ended up putting WWII. And you people keep putting books that I was thinking of and come back to find is now listed!! Hmph. _pouts_ Ah well, my TBR list is growing again, I don’t mind… much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-sci-fi-with-strong-female-characters/289727.md?page=5)