# "Fantasy" style stories but without magic and monsters? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 6, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108 "2009-09-06T22:54:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/1 "2009-09-06T22:54:16Z")
Like the title says- I’m looking for examples of traditional fantasy stories (y’know vaguely medieval setting, sword play, kings and barbarians, etc) but without any actual mythic fantasy things like magic or monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/2 "2009-09-06T23:08:14Z")
Historical fiction, it is called. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/3 "2009-09-06T23:09:40Z")
“Fantasy” without magic and monsters doesn’t sound like _Fantasy_ at all, really. Maybe you could look into [_Historical Fiction_](http://www.amazon.com/s/qid=1252278341/ref=sr_st?keywords=Historical+fiction&rs=&page=1&rh=n%3A!1000%2Ci%3Astripbooks%2Ck%3AHistorical+fiction&sort=salesrank), perhaps with a medieval setting. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/4 "2009-09-06T23:39:34Z")
Not really historical fiction. Looking for stories with other tropes of fantasy- fictional kingdoms, evil kings, lady warriors, wise old mentors. Things like that. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/5 "2009-09-07T00:05:06Z")
The novel of my user namesake **Icerigger** by Alan Dean Foster has all those elements, in an off world SF context if you are partial to that kind of story. > **[Icerigger, Book 1: Foster, Alan Dean: 9780345333957: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Icerigger-Book-Alan-Dean-Foster/dp/0345333950)** > > Icerigger, Book 1 \[Foster, Alan Dean\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Icerigger, Book 1 ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/6 "2009-09-07T00:18:39Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Looking for stories with other tropes of fantasy- fictional kingdoms, evil kings, lady warriors, wise old mentors. Things like that. Some of [David Gemmell](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gemmell)’s novels could well fit with your description. The **Troy** series would be one; there may be a tiny bit of supernatural prophecy in it but no Greek gods or wizzzards in attendance. 🙂 (And it does have semi-fictional kingdoms, evil kings, lady warriors, and wise – and bawdy – old mentors). If your fantasy preferences stretch to a little “low fantasy” (by which I mean no wizards throwing fireballs and people riding dragons) then the **Drenai Series** – for which he is probably best known might be an interesting read – with [Legend](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_%28novel%29) being the first book and well worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/7 "2009-09-07T00:27:23Z")
There are definitely series where the magic is less of an issue than others, though when I try to pin down the ones I’m thinking of, I only end up with GRR Martin. When you said “lady warrior” it made me think of Tamora Pierce’s “Protector of the Small” books. They are YA, though. There’s magic, but magic isn’t the point. I’d possibly call what you’re looking for alternate history fantasy, where the “fantasy” part is the alternate world, not the presence of dragons or wizards. How about Kay? I’ve only read two books by him and one (_Ysabel_) definitely had magic but I can’t remember much in the other (_The Last Light of the Sun_). ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/8 "2009-09-07T00:27:26Z")
There’s a little bit of magic in George R. R. Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire books, but not much at all - most of it is political intrigue and war. Magic is just coming back into the war, but is not at all a force in the books to speak of. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/9 "2009-09-07T00:35:03Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > There’s a little bit of magic in George R. R. Martin’s Song of Ice and Fire books, but not much at all - most of it is political intrigue and war. Magic is just coming back into the war, but is not at all a force in the books to speak of. Was going to say: “the first book of the Ice and Fire series as long as you skip the introduction and last chapter”. Later books have more in the way of magic, but even that is pretty confined to certain subplots. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/10 "2009-09-07T00:46:49Z")
Lois McMaster Bujold The Curse of Chalion Paladin of Souls The Hallowed Hunt set in a universe where gods are real, demons are real but there is no woogie woogie type magic, though a man did get a trio of good mules by praying for them … any ‘magic’ is actually performed by the demons possessing the sorcerers so it isnt really the people casting spells [the demons are just interested in causing lots of chaos] Please note, the 2 romantic interest that end up getting married in the Curse of Chalion are 16 … it is NOT pedophilia, it is an alternate universe where it is not unusual for juveniles to marry. If someone reads the books and gets all offended, it is FICTION people … deal with it. Same author The Sharing Knife [4 volumes, each has a different single word subtitle] Also an alternate universe, um … not sure if you want to consider small psionic abilities are magic in the sense you mean, woogie woogie cast a magic spell and get a fireball shot at a dragon fantasy shit … like the shananana elvish crap. The lakewalker ‘tribe’ magic is small stuff, ability to induce a small amount of healing, convince a rope to never break, convince a horse to behave, feel if your spouse is still alive. The villains of the peace are ‘malices’ or demons that are of mysterious origin from a past when the lakewalkers were very strong mages, but they gave up their magic as they found themselves turning evil. Very little of the series is actually involving malices, the stories are more of a Romeo and Juliette trying to make a marriage in the face of disapproving cultures. THe lakewalkers are nomadic tribals, the others are farmers so a lot of the clash comes from the different lifestyles. I know it sounds like the standard magic shooting fantasy, but honest, they are really not … they are actually very character driven. In neither series is the magic any major part of the story. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/11 "2009-09-07T01:47:05Z")
The Temeraire stories are pretty non-magical once you get past the idea that there are dragons at all. In spelunking around the internet, it appears that Gormenghast is non-magical (I haven’t read it). Ellen Kushner’s Swordspoint is mentioned, too. I’ve read that, but can’t remember if it had magic or not. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/12 "2009-09-07T02:17:10Z")
Gomenghast is more like “magical realism” if there were such a thing as British magical realism. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/13 "2009-09-07T03:35:56Z")
John Gardner and Michael Crichton have written some books of this type (Thinking specifically of Gardner’s **In the Suicide Mountains** ), along with modern takes on Beowulf and Gilgamesh. Some of the more modern Arthurian books soft-pedal the magic elements and focus on the politics and relationships, like the Steinbeck one. Robert E. Howard’s **Sowers of the Thunder** (which introduced Red Sonya) might fit your requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/14 "2009-09-07T03:59:12Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > How about Kay? I’ve only read two books by him and one (_Ysabel_) definitely had magic but I can’t remember much in the other (_The Last Light of the Sun_). Yeah, I was going to suggest _The Lions of Al-Rassan_, which has one minor supernaturalish element but is otherwise more or less exactly what the OP describes. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/15 "2009-09-07T04:38:10Z")
How about [The Warlord Chronicles](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Warlord_Chronicles) by Bernard Cornwell - the guy who wrote the Sharpe novels? It’s his version of King Arthur and the etcs. , but done without any strange women lying in ponds distributing swords. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/16 "2009-09-07T05:41:20Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Gomenghast is more like “magical realism” if there were such a thing as British magical realism. On a related note, can you have magic realism in a medieval setting? [Definitions of “magic realism”](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagicRealism?from=Main.MagicalRealism) strongly suggest that it can only work in a “modern” setting (i.e., the 19th century or later). ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/17 "2009-09-07T11:58:33Z")
Well, Gormenghast is in a kind of indeterminate time period. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/18 "2009-09-07T13:08:14Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > If your fantasy preferences stretch to a little “low fantasy” (by which I mean no wizards throwing fireballs and people riding dragons) then the **Drenai Series** – for which he is probably best known might be an interesting read – with [Legend](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legend_%28novel%29) being the first book and well worth a read. Sure, if you like high cliché-per-page books… :rolleyes:. Seriously - does Gemmel have one original plot or character ? One plot twist you don’t see coming for a hundred pages away ? On top of _Song of Ice and Fire_ I’d suggest the _Black Company_ series by Glen Cook. There is \*some \*magic, and there are \*some \*monsters, but mostly it’s about the Company - amoral mercenaries and their day to day struggles to survive, do what they’re paid to do, and live with themselves. The thing I really like about both series is that, as opposed to every other fantasy books out there, anyone can (and does) die, for good, at any point. It doesn’t matter that they’re charismatic, likeable or well established characters - they just might kick it next page. For nothing. When Cook killed off Tom-tom, he hooked me. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/19 "2009-09-07T14:31:21Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > Like the title says- I’m looking for examples of traditional fantasy stories (y’know vaguely medieval setting, sword play, kings and barbarians, etc) but without any actual mythic fantasy things like magic or monsters. A few of the Discworld books probably come close, and if you’re prepared to accept dwarfs and trolls, a few more do. In any case the Discworld contains a lot of magic and gods, but many of the characters and plots regard one or both as irrelevant or too dangerous to mess with. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108/20 "2009-09-07T22:58:49Z")
Stephen R. Donaldson’s [Mordant’s Need](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordant%27s_Need) books (“The Mirror of Her Dreams” and “A Man Rides Through”) has magic, but in a toned-down and interesting way. There are magic mirrors that act as portals to different worlds, but there are no wizards in the spell-casting sense (only “masters” who create and operate the mirrors). The main focus of the two books is on the political situation in this world – lots of castles, kings, battles, and few barbarians – and the part that the mirrors (and a prophecy) play in it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-style-stories-but-without-magic-and-monsters/509108.md?page=2)