# Fantasy today: What would Tolkien think? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 14, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430 "2006-11-14T20:29:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/21 "2006-11-15T04:17:16Z")
[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance] If Tolkein were alive today I’m thinking he’d want a damn royalty from 90% of the fantasy authors out there. And God help TSR. [/QUOTE] Oh yeah, regarding the OP - what he said. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/22 "2006-11-15T07:47:02Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Tolkien wasn’t a Victorian, he was a Medievalist. He would have hated all of modern fantasy, since he hated 99% of everything composed after 1395. [/QUOTE] Supposedly, he once (jokingly?) said, “Literature ends around 1300. After that, there are only books.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@The\_Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Octagon)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/23 "2006-11-15T07:59:41Z")
He’d probably be miffed at being compared to them, or them to him. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/24 "2006-11-15T23:12:43Z")
I think he’d actually be quite pleased with the 10% that isn’t crap. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/25 "2006-11-16T00:28:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I wasn’t thinking of any books in particular, really. I was just pointing out that modern fantasy novels actually acknowledge the human race has two genders — a principle that some authors have taken to, um, heart. I don’t think it’s so much that Tolkien denied the existance of sexuality; it just wasn’t one of the topics that he wrote about. Folks were still bumpin’ uglies in Middle Earth; they were just doing it privately and off the page. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/26 "2006-11-16T00:50:09Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] I don’t think it’s so much that Tolkien denied the existance of sexuality; it just wasn’t one of the topics that he wrote about. Folks were still bumpin’ uglies in Middle Earth; they were just doing it privately and off the page. [/QUOTE] Yes. Complaining about the lack of romance in _The Lord of the Rings_ is a bit like complaining about the lack of romance in _Moby Dick_ or _The Old Man and The Sea_. Not every story needs to be boy meets girl. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/27 "2006-11-16T01:37:07Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Yes. Complaining about the lack of romance in _The Lord of the Rings_ is a bit like complaining about the lack of romance in _Moby Dick_ or _The Old Man and The Sea_. Not every story needs to be boy meets girl. [/QUOTE] There was a bit of horn in his mind though “I cleave to thee”. I’ve read LotR many times. When I was a youngster I spent a long time existing in that world, and now as a late-thirties-year-old I can still appreciate the book. It’s not the monolith in my life that it was then, but I still love it. I read the Silmarillion shortly after I first read LotR, and I still think that that is the strangest and most powerful and oddest thing I’ve ever read. I hope that Chrisopher has really nailed his dad’s material for next years release of the Narn I Hin Hurin. Oh, and fuckit the prose poem of the tale of Beren and Luthien… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/28 "2006-11-16T20:53:08Z")
[QUOTE=Pochacco] Yes. Complaining about the lack of romance in _The Lord of the Rings_ is a bit like complaining about the lack of romance in _Moby Dick_ or _The Old Man and The Sea_. Not every story needs to be boy meets girl. [/QUOTE] Actually, there is plenty of romance in LotR. It just isn’t splashed all over like soft-core pornography. One of the main driving forces in the book is the effort of Aragorn to win the hand of Arwen, and, on the way, he has to turn down the approaches of a very pretty, very strong-willed maiden of Rohan. In a very wonderful scene, he is forced to leave her standing behind, emotionally in pain, because his heart is elsewhere, and he cannot give in to what would othewise be a very tempting, appealing choice. But the main plot of the book revolves around other issues, so Tolkein didn’t allow this side plot to overtake the main issue. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/29 "2006-11-16T21:06:35Z")
[QUOTE=Chronos] I don’t think it’s so much that Tolkien denied the existance of sexuality; it just wasn’t one of the topics that he wrote about. Folks were still bumpin’ uglies in Middle Earth; they were just doing it privately and off the page. [/QUOTE] Some of those pilgrims on the way to Canterbury told fairly spicy tales. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430/30 "2006-11-16T22:01:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Some of those pilgrims on the way to Canterbury told fairly spicy tales. Certainly, but I’m not seeing the relevance… That was Chaucer, not Tolkien, and I don’t think I’ve ever denied that _other_ writers write about sex. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fantasy-today-what-would-tolkien-think/380430.md?page=1)