# Farm animal breeding. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 25, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909 "2010-11-25T18:54:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/1 "2010-11-25T18:54:14Z")
Are _any_ farm animals still bred naturally? Or is it all by artificial insemination? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Cowgirl\_Jules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@Cowgirl\_Jules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowgirl_Jules)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/2 "2010-11-25T19:18:06Z")
Sure. Lots of commercial beef herds throw some bulls out with the cows at certain times of the year. Sheep are probably bred that way too. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/3 "2010-11-25T19:20:14Z")
It’s not allowed for thoroughbred race horses. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/4 "2010-11-25T19:32:11Z")
Why is that, **yabob**? Are they worried they’ll get damaged? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/5 "2010-11-25T19:37:21Z")
> [@Cowgirl\_Jules](#): > > Sure. Lots of commercial beef herds throw some bulls out with the cows at certain times of the year. Sheep are probably bred that way too. I’m a little surprised. And happy for some reason. Pretty much all beef were bred that way when I was a kid in Bakesfield, but now we hear so much about AI that I wondered if that was the norm. How about dairy cows? A lot of people used to buy the (boy) drop calves from dairy farmers and raise them for beef. Most dairy farms back then were something like ten cows or so. I’ve turned into a total city boy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/6 "2010-11-25T19:39:29Z")
Actually, the artificial insemination should be safer, if anything, but the Jockey Club still insists that foals have to be the product of live breeding to be registered. I’m not sure why without digging. Possibly, it’s to avoid fraudulent substitution of semen, possibly it’s just tradition. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/7 "2010-11-25T19:39:34Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > It’s not allowed for thoroughbred race horses. Which is not allowed? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/8 "2010-11-25T19:41:57Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Actually, the artificial insemination should be safer, if anything, but the Jockey Club still insists that foals have to be the product of live breeding to be registered. I’m not sure why without digging. Possibly, it’s to avoid fraudulent substitution of semen, possibly it’s just tradition. Oh, actually I thought you meant that actual sex between the animals wasn’t allowed because it wasn’t as safe as artificial insemination–the chance of a valuable horse getting kicked or something. That is weird that they don’t allow insemination. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/9 "2010-11-25T19:45:15Z")
Yeah, I guess that wasn’t clear. Artificial insemination isn’t allowed for thoroughbred race horses. Neither are surrogate dams. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/10 "2010-11-25T19:51:23Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Actually, the artificial insemination should be safer, if anything, but the Jockey Club still insists that foals have to be the product of live breeding to be registered. I’m not sure why without digging. Possibly, it’s to avoid fraudulent substitution of semen, possibly it’s just tradition. It also cuts down on inbreeding, as a stallion can only “cover” so many mares a year (still quite a few), far less than could be inseminated by distributing vials of sperm. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/11 "2010-11-25T19:57:31Z")
I don’t know a lot about thoroughbreds, but their lower legs next to the hoof (ankle?) can be delicate compared to the rest of the horse. Thoroughbreds are big. You can see that in [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoroughbred) picture. Mares like it rough. 😉 Delicate, that is, compared to working horses. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/12 "2010-11-25T23:07:06Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Are _any_ farm animals still bred naturally? Or is it all by artificial insemination? In Australia the vast majority of livestock production is rangeland and hence products of natural breeding. I don’t have numbers but believe AI would be the impregnation method of choice with dairy cattle, farms may only keep a bull as a back-up. Technically, the sheeps reproductive tract is substantially more complex than other domesticated mammals, having a curved and folded cervix. The pipette system going through the cervix as used in cattle is not feasible. Simply placing semen against the cervix is called “shot in the dark” and has a low success rate. The most reliable AI method with sheep is laproscopic (by-passing the cerivix) and which means it’s only done by qualified veterinarians. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2010, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/13 "2010-11-25T23:23:06Z")
> [@penultima\_thule](#): > > In Australia the vast majority of livestock production is rangeland and hence products of natural breeding. I don’t have numbers but believe AI would be the impregnation method of choice with dairy cattle, farms may only keep a bull as a back-up. > > Technically, the sheeps reproductive tract is substantially more complex than other domesticated mammals, having a curved and folded cervix. The pipette system going through the cervix as used in cattle is not feasible. Simply placing semen against the cervix is called “shot in the dark” and has a low success rate. > > The most reliable AI method with sheep is laproscopic (by-passing the cerivix) and which means it’s only done by qualified veterinarians. I think there’s a similar situation for pigs, but I don’t know for sure. I might have gotten that idea because a pig’s wee wee is shaped kind of like a corkscrew. I’ve never seen pigs bred, only slaughterd. They didn’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/14 "2010-11-26T00:58:40Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Actually, the artificial insemination should be safer, if anything, but the Jockey Club still insists that foals have to be the product of live breeding to be registered. I’m not sure why without digging. Possibly, it’s to avoid fraudulent substitution of semen, possibly it’s just tradition. Mostly it’s to prevent one particular stallion from siring the majority of the next generation. AI is a great deal safer for the animals involved (although probably not nearly as much fun), but popular sire syndrome is a very real [threat](http://www.canine-genetics.com/Popular_sires.htm). In addition, using just a few males for studs will dramatically reduce the gene pool. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/15 "2010-11-26T01:10:32Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Mostly it’s to prevent one particular stallion from siring the majority of the next generation. AI is a great deal safer for the animals involved (although probably not nearly as much fun), but popular sire syndrome is a very real [threat](http://www.canine-genetics.com/Popular_sires.htm). In addition, using just a few males for studs will dramatically reduce the gene pool. But in demand sires don’t come (ahem) cheap. Isn’t a huge consideration for even the top breeders? Even top sires only promise a slight edge over “lesser” ones. Or no? ---
**Author:** ![Cowgirl\_Jules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4af34b/32.png) [@Cowgirl\_Jules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowgirl_Jules)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/16 "2010-11-26T01:38:32Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > I’m a little surprised. And happy for some reason. Pretty much all beef were bred that way when I was a kid in Bakesfield, but now we hear so much about AI that I wondered if that was the norm. > How about dairy cows? A lot of people used to buy the (boy) drop calves from dairy farmers and raise them for beef. Most dairy farms back then were something like ten cows or so. > I’ve turned into a total city boy. 😉 As far as I know, most dairy cows use AI. Many purebred beef cattle do to, because you want very specific records on the parents. They track all of that stuff. But commercial herds are usually crossbred, and the offspring are mostly sold for beef. So they keep track of what breed of bull is bred to the cows and heifers each year, but you don’t really know which particular animal it was. Don’t need to either. And yeah, people still buy bull calves from dairies to raise for beef. I know someone who has an entire business buying and selling those. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/17 "2010-11-26T02:07:03Z")
Another reason for the “live cover” rule in Thoroughbred horses is security – it ensures that there will be human witnesses to the breeding. And the ‘genetic diversity’ effect of limiting the progeny from any one stallion is important, and becoming more important. Modern racing thoroughbreds have become limited to 3 bloodlines (Mr.Prospector, Nasrullah, & Native Dancer), with Native Dancer most prominent. (In the 2008 Kentucky Derby, every single one of the 20 horses was a descendant of Native Dancer. And the winners of the 12 previous Derbys were all descended from him.) And the Native Dancer line is known to have weak legs & feet, leading to short racing lifespans. Barbaro was an example of this – he didn’t make it to age 4. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/18 "2010-11-26T02:45:22Z")
How important is the mare’s bloodline? I mean a mare almost went undefeated up to lately. I think it was the Breeders Cup where she finally lost. Will she be bred with a champion stallion over another mare? It seems like nobody talks about the moms. A guy at work said she was a tranny male, but he was kidding. I think. 😛 For the sake of honesty, I do have a nugget of dislike for horse racing. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/19 "2010-11-26T03:34:42Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Thoroughbreds are big. You can see that in [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoroughbred) picture. Mares like it rough. 😉 Darn! the way I read that, I thought the link was going to go to a pic of equine S&M. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![BaneSidhe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BaneSidhe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaneSidhe)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909/20 "2010-11-26T03:50:09Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > How important is the mare’s bloodline? I mean a mare almost went undefeated up to lately. I think it was the Breeders Cup where she finally lost. Will she be bred with a champion stallion over another mare? > It seems like nobody talks about the moms. > A guy at work said she was a tranny male, but he was kidding. I think. 😛 > For the sake of honesty, I do have a nugget of dislike for horse racing. That’s Zenyatta and yes, she’ll more than likely be bred to a top notch stallion. Mare’s bloodlines are important and I’ve never understood why people put the stallion’s bloodlines over the mares. Even after being a horseperson for most of my life, I’ve never quite got it. While I realize TB breeders are wanting to keep the # of babies born to a certain stud down to a reasonable level, the bloodlines are so interbred now that the horses are related to themselves. Being a Quarter Horse owner, I’ve seen the stupidity that has caused Impressive Syndrome [HYPP] and HERDA due to rampant inbreeding. Sad.:mad: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/farm-animal-breeding/561909.md?page=2)