# "Fascism is Liberal" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850 "2017-03-23T17:14:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/161 "2017-04-01T00:11:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > That bill did not have the Medicare expansion which is most of what Obamacare is. It was also designed to not as a republican design bill but as a compromise bill to defeat the even worse Hillarycare. It was also introduced by Lincoln Chafee, last seen running for president as a Democrat. Again, this misses that even if that was the case Republicans knew it was a way forward: > **[Mitt Romney admits what he couldn't while running for president](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/mitt-romney-obamacare-romneycare/)** > > And then he takes it back. > [@](#): > > Mitt Romney spent much of his campaign for president in 2012 battling “Obamneycare”: the claim that President Barack Obama’s health care initiative was based on Romneycare, the health care system Romney put in place as governor of Massachusetts. > > Yet on Friday, Romney appeared finally to admit the obvious—that the Affordable Care Act was based on the Bay State’s successful health care initiative. What’s more, the man who ran on a platform of repealing Obamacare seemed to concede that the national health care law is working. > > “Without Tom pushing it, I don’t think we would have had Romneycare,” Romney told the Boston Globe for an obituary of his friend, Staples founder Tom Stemberg, who passed away Friday. “Without Romneycare, I don’t think we would have Obamacare. So without Tom, a lot of people wouldn’t have health insurance.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/162 "2017-04-01T00:38:25Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What year is it where you are? Where I am it is 2017 and sundown towns are as much of a threat as dragon attacks. Vidor, TX is the most well known modern sundown town. I grew up in LA and have been through Vidor dozens of times. It’s ~99.9% non-black in one of the blackest parts of the countries (east TX/west LA). Multiple attempts to integrate the town, as recently as the last decade or two, have failed (black families move in and then move out weeks/months later). That doesn’t happen by coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/163 "2017-04-01T01:06:37Z")
[Some polling](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/03/31/the-gap-between-republicans-and-democrats-views-of-african-americans-just-hit-a-new-high/?utm_term=.a75ac849f29e) on beliefs about black people by Republican and Democratic leaning voters. 26% of Republicans would be opposed to a family member marrying a black person, as compared to 12% of Democrats. It’s a shame either number is so high, and I don’t see any possible explanation for this aside from racism. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/164 "2017-04-01T02:35:08Z")
As best I can tell, the evidence for liberalism equaling fascism ranges from “duh, yeah!” to “prove it don’t!” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/165 "2017-04-01T03:31:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And, one more time, Lieberman strayed far beyond the one issue of the Iraq War. > > You seem to be trying to push a notion that Lieberman was a die hard liberal who made one misstep and the party faithful crucified him for it. > > Quite the opposite really. He made MANY missteps and the Dems _kept him anyway for a long time._ FAR longer than I considered reasonable (and frankly they would have tossed him except he made it 51/49 instead of 50/50 with Cheney as the tiebreaker). Not really. Lieberman wasn’t very conservative on most issues. He was a foreign policy hawk, which left him out of place in a party that was becoming more dovish as a result of their opposition to Bush’s Iraq policy, he generally supported the death penalty, and he was pro free trade (which, I have no idea any more if that’s a left or right wing position), but he was pro-choice, pro gay rights, pro unions, fought to protect Social Security and Medicare, argued against cutting taxes on the rich, and supported gun control. I mean, here’s his “On the Issues” page, summarizing his positions. I don’t know if he was a die-hard liberal, but I’m not seeing a lot outside of the 1990s-2000s Democratic mainstream, other than his support for the Iraq war. He was probably more liberal than Bill Clinton or Al Gore. [http://www.ontheissues.org/Joseph\_Lieberman.htm](http://www.ontheissues.org/Joseph_Lieberman.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2017, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/166 "2017-04-03T09:32:22Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > What year is it where you are? Where I am it is 2017 and sundown towns are as much of a threat as dragon attacks. …which, to the extent this is correct, is due to the efforts of liberals. > [@puddleglum](#): > > The GOP passes legislation that allows private businesses to discriminate, the Democrats pass legislation that mandates the government treat people differently by race and sex. It is obvious which is more fascistic. Obvious if you squint and look at it in a dim light. Meanwhile, let’s look at the [Republican bills in 18 states to suppress public protests](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/24/republican-lawmakers-introduce-bills-to-curb-protesting-in-at-least-17-states/?utm_term=.dcf5868eee14). I think that pings a little higher on the obviousness scale for fascism. > [@](#): > > People were so happy that Obama was elected they decided to form a personality cult. Even Liberals such as Paul Krugman noticed that “I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality.” Look at [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fZHou18Cdk) or [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghSJsEVf0pU)if you don’t believe me. Oh I know there were many people who got overly excited about Obama. I just think the examples you chose were extremely poor and, it’s worth noting, did nothing to demonstrate that Obama was cultivating that reaction unlike Trump (about whose followers you seem to have developed an odd sort of amnesia). > [@](#): > > [Here is a fact check](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/barack-obama/Obama-says-health-plan-incorporates-ideas-of-Democ/)that debunks the notion that Obamacare had significant input from Republicans. All the Republican amendments except a couple were technical issues and did not affect the substance of the bill. Apart from the fact that, as pointed out, the bill already drew substantially from a previous Republican bill, how many “technical issue amendments” did the GOP include in any of their healthcare bills? How many conversations and meetings did they have with their Democratic counterparts? How many days of discussion on the floor did they have? And since you’ve admitted that the Democrats did include “a couple” of substantial amendments, how many did the Republicans even briefly consider from the other side of the aisle? So remind me again which side refuses to be bipartisan? I realize that this “liberals are the real fascists” meme is currently making the rounds of the right-wing media websites so I’m not surprised to see it appearing and there, much in the same way that initial opponents of PPACA all strangely began describing it in the same language at the same time (does the phrase “rammed down our throats” ring a bell?). Unfortunately it doesn’t stand up to much scrutiny…but then it doesn’t really have to, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/167 "2017-04-04T17:46:59Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I get the feeling that “fascist” is in a class with “SJW” or “bigot”: one of those paint-your-enemy words that has a tendency to just shut down meaningful dialog. I think you nailed it. This is effectively a smear campaign against liberals. When liberals say they want responsible environmental policy or that people ought to be free to conduct themselves according to their conscious, conservatives want to point at them and claim “what liberals really want is Stalinist labor camps!” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/168 "2017-04-05T18:48:34Z")
I’m hoping the **puddleglum** might chime in here to respond to my query from last week. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/169 "2017-04-05T21:48:16Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > I’m hoping the **puddleglum** might chime in here to respond to my query from last week. Optimist… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/170 "2017-04-06T02:39:55Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You mean like that famous German Romantic, John Locke? Or maybe you meant Voltaire? > > _In what way_ are the roots of Liberalism in German Romanticism? It depends what kind of ‘liberal’ we’re talking about. Since you mentioned Locke, I assume you’re talking about classical Liberalism. The modern inheritors of that philosophy are conservatives and libertarians - not liberals. To the extent that liberals are in bed with progressivism, they are the antithesis of Classical Liberalism, which is based on the inherent right of people to live freely and to follow a path in life of their own choosing. Progressives support hate speech laws. Progressives are turning campuses into political indoctrination camps. Progressives think Orwell’s “1984” is a how-to guide. Most of them are socialists, and a number of them are Marxists. They believe in putting people into collective groups and then pitting those groups against each other for political gain. As for Communists vs Fascists, they are a lot closer in outlook than you might think. The main split in the early 20th century was being international socialism and national socialism, which became Naziism and other forms of fascism. Hitler was a socialist - he just believed that the benefits of socialism were only for Aryan Germans and not for the ‘mongrel races’. But if you were a ‘proper’ German, Hitler promised you the same things progressives today want: Free higher education (with compulsory teaching of ‘politically correct’ ideas), social assistance, abolishment of ‘non-work’ income (investments, etc), a generous old-age pension, state takeover of private land for the ‘common good’, maternity benefits, ending juvenile employment, etc. That could be the Democratic party platform today, except his 25-point plan was also shot through with racism and crazy German nationalism. It was also very similar to what the Communists were promising, except that they want to expand Communism to all countries while the Nazis felt that National Socialism should be only for ‘proper’ Germans and that it would strengthen Germany and help it conquer the world. When Stalin and Hitler agreed to the Molotov-Ribbentrop nonaggression pact, leftists in the United States had no problem embracing fascism. The American isolationist movement actively tried to stop the U.S. from fighting Germany. it wasn’t until Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back that leftists and progressives in the U.S. suddenly discovered how horrible Hitler was. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/171 "2017-04-06T03:15:09Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > It depends what kind of ‘liberal’ we’re talking about. Since you mentioned Locke, I assume you’re talking about classical Liberalism. The modern inheritors of that philosophy are conservatives and libertarians - not liberals. Complete and utter nonsense. A modern liberal is someone who has applied the principles of “classical liberalism” in light of what we know now (that we didn’t 250 years ago) about how societies work. > [@](#): > > To the extent that liberals are in bed with progressivism, they are the antithesis of Classical Liberalism, which is based on the inherent right of people to live freely and to follow a path in life of their own choosing. That’s…exactly what progressivism is, actually. > [@](#): > > Progressives support hate speech laws. Progressives are turning campuses into political indoctrination camps. Progressives think Orwell’s “1984” is a how-to guide. Most of them are socialists, and a number of them are Marxists. They believe in putting people into collective groups and then pitting those groups against each other for political gain. > > As for Communists vs Fascists, they are a lot closer in outlook than you might think. The main split in the early 20th century was being international socialism and national socialism, which became Naziism and other forms of fascism. Hitler was a socialist - he just believed that the benefits of socialism were only for Aryan Germans and not for the ‘mongrel races’. But if you were a ‘proper’ German, Hitler promised you the same things progressives today want: Free higher education (with compulsory teaching of ‘politically correct’ ideas), social assistance, abolishment of ‘non-work’ income (investments, etc), a generous old-age pension, state takeover of private land for the ‘common good’, maternity benefits, ending juvenile employment, etc. > > That could be the Democratic party platform today, except his 25-point plan was also shot through with racism and crazy German nationalism. It was also very similar to what the Communists were promising, except that they want to expand Communism to all countries while the Nazis felt that National Socialism should be only for ‘proper’ Germans and that it would strengthen Germany and help it conquer the world. > > When Stalin and Hitler agreed to the Molotov-Ribbentrop nonaggression pact, leftists in the United States had no problem embracing fascism. The American isolationist movement actively tried to stop the U.S. from fighting Germany. it wasn’t until Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back that leftists and progressives in the U.S. suddenly discovered how horrible Hitler was. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone so eager to show off how uninformed they are, how little thought they’ve bothered to put into their worldview. In a way, it’s impressive. If you can manage to come up with something coherent and reality-based, I’ll respond more substantively. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/172 "2017-04-06T03:41:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > When Stalin and Hitler agreed to the Molotov-Ribbentrop nonaggression pact, leftists in the United States had no problem embracing fascism. The American isolationist movement actively tried to stop the U.S. from fighting Germany. it wasn’t until Hitler stabbed Stalin in the back that leftists and progressives in the U.S. suddenly discovered how horrible Hitler was. Well, that was really silly. :). But to deal with a Gish gallop of points one should point at one item: in this case that last bit. In reality most of the leftists that supported Stalin became disillusioned by that treaty, there is even a name for that item: > **[The Great Disillusionment | The Saturday Evening Post](https://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/10/the-great-disillusionment/)** > > How an agreement between two dictators caused people to lose faith in Communism. > [@](#): > > The Great Disillusionment > > … > > The agreement kicked the legs out from under the world’s radicals. Ever since 1917, when the Bolsheviks had overthrown Russia’s autocratic government, revolutionaries around the world had viewed the new communist government as the future of mankind. When the First World War ended and Europe’s governments tried to turn back the clock to regain privilege and power for their ruling classes, Russia seemed to be the only progressive force on the continent. The radical regarded the Soviet Union, not the U.S., as the international champion of liberty. To them, Lenin replaced Lincoln as the great emancipator. And Russia’s commitment to world communism, they believed, would end the oppression of workers everywhere. > > Of course much of this thinking was put forth by the Soviet government itself. It had sent agents around the globe to promote unrest, destabilize governments, and recruit activists who would help establish the dictatorship of the proletariat. Men and women by the thousands gave their efforts, and sometimes their lives, to realize this dream. But the Worker’s Paradise in communist Russia had become a cruel joke, particularly after Stalin seized total power. The Soviet government had become the regime of a despot. > > … > > By the late 1930s, though, it was getting harder to keep faith with Soviet Russia. News was leaking out of the country, despite rigid censorship, that Stalin had executed not only his opponents but thousands of his most dedicated followers. > > And then Stalin signed a peace accord with his sworn enemy. For many radicals who still supported the ideals of communism, this was simply too much. Stalin had betrayed them. > > [[disenchantment-cartoon] > > “Heartbroken” > > Herbert Johnson cartoon appeared in the Post in 1939 illustrated communist supporters’ disillusionment with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.] > > “By his deal with the Nazis,” Bess wrote, “Stalin completely wrecked the Communist movement in all countries except his own. He finally made it clear, even to the most muddleheaded liberals, that there is little or nothing to choose between Stalin and Hitler, between Bolshevism and Nazism. He deliberately threw away any prospect of world leadership which he might have possessed. I have no idea why one would think that most leftists or liberals would not be willing to fight against the fascists still (and also think then that Stalin and his communists were not to be trusted). Of course, in the USA there was the “America First” (sounds familiar, I may remember where did I hear that recently… ) movement lead by Charles Lindberg that was isolationist and actively tried to stop the U.S. from fighting Germany, but while the movement did include a wide range of supporters, Lindberg was an anti-Semite and a fascist sympathizer. > **[Trump’s Appeasers: Charles Lindbergh Is a Cautionary Tale for Republicans](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2016/11/charles-lindbergh-is-a-cautionary-tale-for-republicans.html)** > > He was a national hero, then a fascist sympathizer. History will be just as brutal to more than a few current GOP leaders. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/173 "2017-04-06T04:24:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Progressives support hate speech laws. Progressives are turning campuses into political indoctrination camps. Progressives think Orwell’s “1984” is a how-to guide. Most of them are socialists, and a number of them are Marxists. They believe in putting people into collective groups and then pitting those groups against each other for political gain. Now that is what I call comedy. Did you source that from Marvel or DC? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/174 "2017-04-06T10:52:06Z")
Spotted on t’Internet recently: > [@Paul Musgrave](#): > > As a professor, Fox News tells me I can turn my students into Communists and experience tells me I can’t even make them do the readings. It doesn’t surprise me that conservatives think progressives want to turn schools into “political indoctrination camps” since that’s what conservatives have been trying to do for decades - Bible classes, creationism/ID in science classes, historical revisionism in textbooks, book bannings, etc. The ACLU is kept quite busy by the efforts of the right to impose their worldview on students. The evidence that the left is trying to do the same is far, far weaker. (It does surprise me, however, that a professor would use such a blatant dangling participle. The perils of tweeting, I guess.) ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/175 "2017-04-06T16:25:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Spotted on t’Internet recently: > > It doesn’t surprise me that conservatives think progressives want to turn schools into “political indoctrination camps” since that’s what conservatives have been trying to do for decades - Bible classes, creationism/ID in science classes, historical revisionism in textbooks, book bannings, etc. The ACLU is kept quite busy by the efforts of the right to impose their worldview on students. The evidence that the left is trying to do the same is far, far weaker. > > (It does surprise me, however, that a professor would use such a blatant dangling participle. The perils of tweeting, I guess.) It’s a gerund, not a participle. In English, the forms are usually the same, but the difference is in usage. A gerund functions as a noun, a participle as an adjective. In this case, “readings” is clearly serving as a noun, as the object of “do.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/176 "2017-04-06T17:08:29Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Optimist… True - I have high hopes that today is the day when **puddleglum** clarifies this statement: > [@](#): > > The GOP passes legislation that allows private businesses to discriminate, the Democrats pass legislation that mandates the government treat people differently by race and sex. It is obvious which is more fascistic. It’s not obvious to me. What dem legislation are you referencing? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/177 "2017-04-06T17:13:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He was probably more liberal than Bill Clinton or Al Gore. That must be why McCain [seriously considered Lieberman as his VP running mate](http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/politics/McCain-Was-Leaning-Toward-Lieberman-Adviser-81127212.html) for 2008 and why Lieberman gave a keynote speech on the opening night of the republican national convention and supported McCain over Obama and Clinton. Don’t forget Lieberman also [seriously sabotaged Obamacare.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/10/did_lieberman_just_kill_the_public_option.html) Whatever he might have been changed towards the end. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/178 "2017-04-06T17:16:45Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > True - I have high hopes that today is the day when **puddleglum** clarifies this statement: > > > [@](#): > > > > The GOP passes legislation that allows private businesses to discriminate, the Democrats pass legislation that mandates the government treat people differently by race and sex. It is obvious which is more fascistic. > > It’s not obvious to me. What dem legislation are you referencing? > > Thanks! Obviously, he is referring to affirmative action which, in his view, causes problems by elevating minorities by dint of their minority to supra-Peter-principle positions, pushing deserving _normal_ people out of the way. Or, that the right to be a pervert outweighs the right to love god. Stuff that any _normal_ person can clearly see is ridiculously out of balance. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/179 "2017-04-06T18:27:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > They believe in putting people into collective groups and then pitting those groups against each other for political gain. I hate when people do that. Hey, wanna join together and stop them? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850/180 "2017-04-06T20:24:37Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > It’s a gerund, not a participle. > > In English, the forms are usually the same, but the difference is in usage. A gerund functions as a noun, a participle as an adjective. In this case, “readings” is clearly serving as a noun, as the object of “do.” Having read your post, one might also note that gerunds can have a function similar to a subordinative conjunction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fascism-is-liberal/782850.md?page=10)