# Fashion shows. Seriously, WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 8, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938 "2010-07-08T06:14:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/61 "2010-07-08T20:45:04Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I have a ton of respect for the study of color and find it very interesting. But the importance of the study of color doesn’t change the fact that color decisions made in the circles of high fashion have absolutely zero to do with what someone chooses to wear from mainstream fashion. If Oscar de la Renta had never made a blue gown (and let’s face it, to most of the population, it’s blue), someone in charge of clothing design at Target or Gap would still have created a blue sweater and someone in the public would have still bought it… > > Have you ever seen pictures of a fashion show? Even leaving aside the “too skinny” debate, most of the women that do a little turn on the catwalk are hideous drugged out freaks. Or they’re dolled up that way by men and women who have no idea what the words “attractive female” actually mean. [Color trends](http://www.fashiontrendsetter.com/content/color_trends.html) in high fashion directly affect colors to be found down the food chain to mainstream fashion. Colors for interior decorating are likewise linked throughout the industry. Colors for each season are not just random selection, but big business. [Just like the NBA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12610021&postcount=48)! > [@](#): > > You are aware that these “knuckle dragging NBA players” are responsible for the direct employment of hundreds of people and the indirect wellbeings of thousands more right? > > Because if you’re not aware of that and just spouting off to make yourself sound superior to the stupid athletes, well then maybe its your IQ we should be questioning. I’ve probably seen as many pictures of fashions shows as you have. Perhaps even more! The models are very thin & very young–but made up to look “interesting” on the catwalk. Yes, it’s theater–created by & for people who don’t care whether or not you consider the models fuckable. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/62 "2010-07-08T20:46:03Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > To me, it’s a bit more than that. It should be viewed as an art form and as such should not suffer from inqury as to “why”. > > Why anything? There are too many people’s jobs, too many consumers’ money and too many women’s self-images involved (whether or not the crazy runway stuff ever gets mass merchandised). That’s why “why.” Calling it art excuses all real-world causes and effects. BTW, even art is susceptible to criticism. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/63 "2010-07-08T20:54:39Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > [Color trends](http://www.fashiontrendsetter.com/content/color_trends.html) in high fashion directly affect colors to be found down the food chain to mainstream fashion. Colors for interior decorating are likewise linked throughout the industry. Colors for each season are not just random selection, but big business. I read an interesting magazine article about how these selections are made each season; anybody interested, let me know and I’ll dig it up. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/64 "2010-07-08T21:02:11Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > There are too many people’s jobs, too many consumers’ money and too many women’s self-images involved (whether or not the crazy runway stuff ever gets mass merchandised). > > That’s why “why.” Calling it art excuses all real-world causes and effects. > > BTW, even art is susceptible to criticism. Oh, fashion should be censored? There are always a few fashion victims, but most women are pretty good at figuring out what suits them. I buy most of my work clothes at Target, but usually check out the September _Vogue_ to see what the designers are up to. Even the stuff that will never affect my wardrobe can be interesting or amusing. Feel free to dress yourself! ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/65 "2010-07-08T21:33:27Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > I don’t intend to suggest either of those things. I _do_ maintain that our culture takes what is at heart an illusory ritual far too seriously, mostly because of our misguided reverence for big money and celebrity. Or maybe some people just really appreciate the craftmanship and artistry that goes into these clothes just as some people like to stroke their sad, little egos by labeling other people’s interests materialistic and shallow? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/66 "2010-07-08T21:47:26Z")
Hey, I appreciate the craftsmanship and artistry that went into popular dance music in the 1920s and 30s, but it’s so unmarketable, unprofitable, and unfashionable that I’ve long since given up hope that anyone outside a fringe of eccentrics will ever appreciate it. I appreciate craft and artistry in anything, really, but as high fashion goes, a lot of it just seems tawdry and derivative, without much to say. I imagine the fashionistas would react similarly to my record collection. PS: I will be the first to concede that my “little ego” is entirely too big. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/67 "2010-07-08T22:21:31Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > I appreciate craft and artistry in anything, really, but as high fashion goes, a lot of it just seems tawdry and derivative, without much to say. I imagine the fashionistas would react similarly to my record collection. People outside a scene are often lack the context to understand the nuances that make something interesting to people inside a scene. I find soccer boring. But I realize that it’s because I know almost nothing about soccer. A soccer fan is seeing all sorts of things that are completely invisible to me. All I see is some guys kicking a ball randomly around the field. The soccer fan sees sophisticated strategies unfolding and being thwarted. I imagine the same is true of high fashion. The fans know the designers and the history of their work and can then appreciate what appears on the runway in a context that gives it a depth and meaning that’s not there for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Tethered\_Kite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@Tethered\_Kite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tethered_Kite)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/68 "2010-07-08T22:30:19Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > People outside a scene are often lack the context to understand the nuances that make something interesting to people inside a scene. This sentence. Having continued to read here I wonder if some people are reacting to the infamous attitude that goes along with the fashion world. It’s not exactly taking place in a vacuum where like-minded folks get together to enjoy what they find mutually enjoyable. Insiders-outsiders. I wonder how much of that dichotomy is involved in the aversion. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/69 "2010-07-08T22:32:25Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > People outside a scene are often lack the context to understand the nuances that make something interesting to people inside a scene. > > I find soccer boring. But I realize that it’s because I know almost nothing about soccer. A soccer fan is seeing all sorts of things that are completely invisible to me. All I see is some guys kicking a ball randomly around the field. The soccer fan sees sophisticated strategies unfolding and being thwarted. > > I imagine the same is true of high fashion. The fans know the designers and the history of their work and can then appreciate what appears on the runway in a context that gives it a depth and meaning that’s not there for the rest of us. Yes, but. Fashion is a privileged scene. Because of money and aspirations to high art - and probably some other factors, such as the prevalence in the industry of socially important out-groups - everybody’s somehow supposed to be especially respectful of fashion. (Insider-outsider? More like elite-unwashed.) Not everybody (certainly not in the USA) feels a particular reverence towards soccer. No one gives a millishit about my record collection. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/70 "2010-07-09T00:14:03Z")
Not every fashion designer with a runway show and unusual creations is considered _haute couture_. In Paris there are strict laws about which designers can use those words in describing their businesses. Each year a list is drawn up. Other countries feel a little more comfortable in swiping the French expression to use in describing their collections. > [@](#): > > **Princester** : The fashion industry pretends it is about art but I don’t believe a word of it. Art museums certainly recognize creations designed from fabric as works of art and house them all over the world. If you have never seen an exhibit, I can understand you attitude. A gown by Charles Worth is something to behold. > [@](#): > > **Valley of the Dolls** : Haute couture, as it exists now, is a publicity/marketing and branding tool. I believe that instead of _haute couture_, you are referring to _pret-a-porter_ – the fasion runway trade shows for ready to wear. [This is one coming up in September in Paris.](http://www.biztradeshows.com/trade-events/pret-a-porter.html). ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/71 "2010-07-09T00:22:42Z")
Some of you might be interested in seeing some of these gowns by Charles Worth. Consider that everything was done by hand in tiny stitches. And we can’t even begin to see the details here. [House of Worth](http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Charles+Worth+exhibit%22&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=) ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/72 "2010-07-09T01:01:38Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I believe that instead of _haute couture_, you are referring to _pret-a-porter_ – the fasion runway trade shows for ready to wear. Nope. If I had meant that, I would have said that. I’m aware of the history behind haute couture clothing and the Syndicale but for its purposes today, haute couture works as a publicity tool. IMHO, one of John Galliano’s shows does more to promote his brand than a bazillion magazine ads. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/73 "2010-07-09T01:12:56Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Actually, I think that’s her point. It doesn’t matter if the lowly plebe cares or not - the garment that they are wearing right now is on their body because of decisions made by the fashion industry. A multi-billion dollar industry that supplies an awful lot of jobs to an awful lot of people. > > It’s very easy to dismiss fashion as being shallow, vain and unimportant until you remember a) it helps drive the economy, b) many people actually kind of dig it and spend $$ - also driving the economy and c) no one in the fashion industry has received a bail-out of any kind and more money is spent on fashion in the US than cars by a factor of 10 (once you include all of the spin off items such as fragrance, make up ($8 billion/year on just this one), etc. “Creates jobs” and “drives the economy” relative to what? If the shirt had been a slightly different shade of blue, would any fewer people be employed? If the top 100 designers became monks and the next 100, slightly less bizarre people took their place, would we really notice their disappearance? If not, then how can they be said to be important? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/74 "2010-07-09T01:19:45Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > [Color trends](http://www.fashiontrendsetter.com/content/color_trends.html) in high fashion directly affect colors to be found down the food chain to mainstream fashion. Colors for interior decorating are likewise linked throughout the industry. Colors for each season are not just random selection, but big business. [Just like the NBA](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12610021&postcount=48)! Well played. But you haven’t addressed my question yet. How does the “color of the season” affect what people may or may not buy from Target? Shades of blue are still just blue to the vast majority of the shopping population. The same goes for red, green, brown, etc, etc, etc. I’m not denying that high fashion can be art (I reserve the right to think its stupid however), but I think it has a much smaller affect on mainstream fashion than some of the people in this thread would like to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/75 "2010-07-09T01:30:07Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Which is it? A joke or your actual opinion? > > This thread is like the abstract art threads that pop up from time to time: “Oh noes! Someone is behaving as though they like something I don’t like! But they can’t really like it! They must be crazy/deluded/running a scam/whatever!” Certainly didn’t start the thread to whine – I"m just trying to understand the purpose. The shows must cost a bundle to put on, and I don’t see the end benefit to the designers or the public. If, as others have pointed out, it’s an artsy type show for designers to go over the top and possibly influence designs in some new, stylish direction by putting rhino horns on someone, umm… ok, that’s fine. I’m just trying to figure out what’s going on. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/76 "2010-07-09T01:57:56Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Pro football gave us _Ace Ventura, Pet Detective_. > _Ace Ventura, Pet Detective_ gave us Jim Carey. > Jim Carey dated Jenny McCarthy so you didn’t have to. > You may now thank pro football. And yet, I feel compelled to point out that there are probably more efficient ways to have kept **Jenna McCarthy** and **The Hamster King apart**. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/77 "2010-07-09T03:08:39Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Oh, fashion should be censored? Whaaaaa? ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/78 "2010-07-09T03:09:40Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > But they might have as easily bought a maroon one that was colored that way for a reason unconnected to last year’s fashion show. I think the whole point of that scene in the movie was that that would never happen. There _is_ no item exempt from the influence, so there could be no maroon sweater colored that way for another reason. There is no other reason. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/79 "2010-07-09T03:20:58Z")
That makes no sense. Things have color. Meryl Streep doesn’t create it. ---
**Author:** ![moejoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@moejoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moejoe)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938/80 "2010-07-09T03:27:37Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Well played. > > But you haven’t addressed my question yet. How does the “color of the season” affect what people may or may not buy from Target? Shades of blue are still just blue to the vast majority of the shopping population. The same goes for red, green, brown, etc, etc, etc. I’m not sure that’s true, I think plenty of people will buy a blouse in one shade of blue (or green or brown or red) that they wouldn’t buy in another shade. Also, if you pay attention you might notice that pretty much all of the stores (from Neiman’s to Target) will have a variety of clothes in stock for the fall but all of them will share some key characteristics (_that_ blue, or skirt length, or texture). Even if you just people watch on the street you’ll notice seasonal trends, maybe everyone is wearing boots this year or short coats instead of long ones or whatever. This is the influence of those shallow useless fashion shows…and the point is that they bring people pleasure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fashion-shows-seriously-wtf/545938.md?page=5)